Marc Caro, a French filmmaker and cartoonist, is mainly known as a co-director of Delicatessen and The City of Lost Children. Made in cooperation with Jean-Pierre Jeunet, these black comedies with a strong dose of surrealism have become true cult movies of the 1990s, and still continue to win new fans.
In late October, Caro visited Kyiv to head the jury of Molodist Film Festival, giving The Day’s correspondent a chance to question him about cinema, cartoons, and more.
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Who taught you cinematography?
“I’m self-taught, I have never been to any cinema school.”
What path did you follow then?
“I started in the late 1970s as a cartoonist, and that’s what I did for 15 years. The cartoons were published in the science-fiction magazine Metal Hurlant. I should say that the language of cartoons is very close to that of movies because in both a story is told through images and pictures. I drew, and I enjoyed that, but after a while I said to myself, ‘Hey, why don’t they move, why don’t they speak?’ And thus I started making animated films with puppets.”
Can comic cartoons be serious art?
“This IS serious art. There are authors who can express so much in this very way. There are even things which can only be expressed through comics. Besides, it is a very labor-consuming craft. Like movies, there is scene selection and dialog.”
Like Art Spiegelman and his Holocaust comic, Mouse Holes?
“He is a collegue of mine. I even published my cartoons in his magazine. Every time I come to New York I have to see him. By the way, his wife is French. There are great artists who work in comics, they do it sincerely, and there are those who draw for money, only to sell. But the same can be said about music and film. Actually, I make movies because I enjoy it.”
Speaking of animation, what kind of films did you work on?
“Puppet animation. I worked with marionettes.”
Why did you like this work?
“Animation has something magic in it. Georges Melies brought this magic to the movies long ago. One of my strongest childhood impressions is that of Walt Disney cartoons. I watched them, just like lots of other young Europeans. It is so exciting and wonderful: to watch true life appear from nothing, from just a sketch, a couple of pencil strokes.”
So why did you quit?
“Because there came a time when I said to myself, ‘Why only puppets? It would be good to work with people.’ So I switched to short films, and I have been working in the movies until now. Maybe I’ll be fed up someday, and I will take up something else. But at the moment I’m enjoying myself.”
You are very changing. Is it the same with your professional direction?
“I don’t really know... After all, in movies I have found the most comprehensive, multi-faceted thing which totally satisfies me. I love drawing, and I do all the storyboards myself. Then, I enjoy moving actors and telling them what and how they should do it. Also, I work with scenery, write scripts and music for my films. Thus, all my favorite pastimes are present in filmmaking. This art is just for me.”
Sometimes you work for television. To what extent is it art for you, or perhaps it’s just a way of making money?
“I can’t say that I really work for television. Everything I do there is about film design: titles, scenery, and the like. Also, I have begun to make documentaries for TV. This is very exciting. But it is different, and is perhaps a complement to my work in big cinematography.”
The so-called dance movies are yet another trend in your art.
“I made them with a choreographer. He created movements and gestures, and my task was to render them on film. I had to find a way of doing it. I cannot call it pure pantomime, but we aspired to tell a story via movement.”
Let us move to the main issue. How did you meet Jeunet?
“When I was just finishing the lyceum, my friends and I created the Animation magazine. There was an animation film festival, and I went to sell this mag there. There I met Jeunet and sold him a copy. We became friends, and when we met we said that next time we must do something. Then, I began to help him with animation films, and that was it.”
When did you invent these wonderful stories, Delicatessen and The City of Lost Children? Did it take long to make them?
“First, the script for Lost Children was written. But we were little known, so we failed to find financing. With a minimal budget we filmed The Bunker. Then, we quickly wrote Delicatessen, on only 30 pages. One producer liked the story, and she said that she was interested — so then we developed everything into a real script.”
Who first came up with the idea of City and Delicatessen?
“Co-operation can be compared to a pot on the table where everyone puts something in, an idea of his own. Therefore, it is hard to say who did what, and who was first. We were making up things together. But then, during the filming, I was more preoccupied with the visual aspect (costumes and scenery), and Jeunet dealt with the actors.”
Both movies, despite being light, reflect a grim reality. Why?
“You can see these films differently, but for me (maybe, less so for Jean-Pierre) these movies are primarily fairy-tales. For example, in Delicatessen there is this classical fairy-tale ogre, and in the Children — dream thieves, a sort of vampire. And then the history of the French realistic-fantastic film was put on top; as, for example, the Cocteau films which I love. And this also could be drawn in comics.
“Also, when I’m told that these films are noir, I reply that they carry a lot of hope. The main character manages to enter a complete world from the outside. Despite the dark side, he tries to overcome it somehow.”
Remaining comical at that...
“Yes, of course, they have this aspect. If there is room for hope, why should everything be sad? Even if you fight against a hostile world, you can do it with some aloofness, and with some humor. And so these characters follow their convictions, and do all that with innocence, for they were not going to turn the world upside down, but due to their inner convictions the reality around them begins to move. Besides, this system (as in Delicatessen, for example) is impregnated with self-ruination. The butcher kills himself. And in The City, the devourer of dreams, because he has taken too much, turns into a helpless child.”
Both films contain quite brutal scenes. Do you agree that violence is quite cinematographic by itself?
“I think that in American movies there is much more of it... By the way, I was terribly surprised to learn that in the US, The City of Lost Children was rated R. As it turned out, the restriction was imposed because there is an episode when a child is slapped! Strange, indeed: shooting someone point-blank in the head is not violence, but slapping is!
“So, different cultural approaches... By the way, the famous Belgian film, the black comedy Man bites dog, could not be shown either, because of the picture on the poster. There, following a shot at a baby carriage, a dummy pops out. Afterwards, the dummy was replaced with a set of false teeth. And then, all objections were canceled. So it appears that you cannot kill children, but killing old folks is okay.”
Long ago already, Godard said that all you need for a good movie is a girl and a gun.
“Well, this is classic... Movies influence feelings and emotions. It is much easier to evoke these feelings by means of violent scenes. Fear, laughter... But likewise, movies are capable of speaking about serious, philosophical themes, like in the great films by Stanley Kubrick or Andrei Tarkovsky. Showing a man’s place in the Universe via a string of images... This is very important and interesting.”
What was the most difficult thing while working on Delicatessen and The City?
“Generally speaking, The City is a more complicated movie. The most difficult thing was the preparatory period. When the actual filming began, there were no particular problems.”
In all appearances, you are a movie workaholic, and you have a very sober approach to your work.
“The reason for such an approach lies in my previous history: I have come from animation. There you have to create not only each move, but each fragment of this move. This is my approach towards the cinematography, too. There is another manner: catching glimpses of what exists in reality. Since the very beginning there have been two different approaches: the Lumiere brothers filmed what they could see, while Melies would build, construct things.
“There is this aspect to the work: you are a kind of magician, an illusionist. Maybe, it comes from my hands because I used to draw.”
You recently worked with Jeunet on Alien 4. What is your contribution to this film?
“Yes, Jeunet offered me the job. I liked the script, so I said I would draw the settings. He replied, ‘Americans are already doing it.’ ‘Well, then I will design all those machines.’ ‘No, there is an English guy who is doing it.’ ‘So what shall I do then?’ And he asked me to draw the characters and the heroes — so that’s what I was busy doing.”
Why did your co-operation come to an end?
“When you work together, sooner or later you come to notice that certain things which are interesting for one person are not interesting for the other. For example, Jeunet was far from this mystical aspect, and I had no interest in his romantic intonations. We invested everything we had in Delicatessen and The City. There was such a period, and then we just split, that’s all.”
Your first and so far last completely solo film project is also a fantasy, Dante 01. It seemed to me that Christian motifs were strongly accentuated there. In particular, the space station is cross-shaped.
“This cross (by the way, four-dimensional) appeared at first solely due to financial problems. The building had to be round — like a snake biting its own tail. It turned out to be too expensive, so we opted for a cubic structure. There are no grounds to see Christianity in it. Besides, the cross is present in many religions.”
How advanced is Lewis Carroll’s The Hunting of the Snark?
“I worked on it for seven years. The script exists, but it’s much too expensive. I couldn’t find unding. So now I’m working on screen adaptation of one of Kafka’s novels. I won’t tell you which exactly, I don’t want to jinx it.”
Will there be money for this one at least?
“I hope so. I have a different approach here, I want to make it feasible without external help. The cheaper it is, the more chances we have to see it on screen.”
After so many years in art, have you got anything you can do purely for fun?
“I have stopped distinguishing what I do for a living, and what is a hobby. It seems to me that I’m on one big holiday, doing what I please.”
Speaking about Kafka — have you ever had a recurring movie-related fear?
(Smiling) “After The City of Lost Children I was afraid to bump into a kid whom I had deprived of faith in Santa Claus...”
