Although our meeting with Jamala was prompted by a whole lot of events, like launch of the video to the song “Cactus,” online concert presentation of the new album All or Nothing, a solo concert in the capital’s Zhovtnevy Palace on April 26, it is anyways interesting to talk to her: the singer always has something to say.
“I have played the leading female role – Olha Levytska, a Ukrainian actress and singer – in Oles Sanin’s work A Guide (a wonderful Ukrainian movie that will premiere soon). Anton Hril, a grandson of the well-known Ukrainian artist Bohdan Soroka, played kobzar’s leader. When we first met, the boy said he had learnt about Jamala from his grandfather (the boy resides in the US). ‘How does your grandfather know about me?’ I asked. ‘He read about you in Den newspaper’ was his answer. That was the first incident when people learned about me not from my performances, rotation of my songs on radio or TV, but from a printed periodical, whose interview aroused excitement.”
You have recently sung Ukraine’s national anthem before the boxing bout of Viacheslav Uzelkov and Doudou Ngumbu. How did you feel?
“It was the second time I was singing the anthem in public. However, it was the first time I sang it a cappella on a boxing ring. Frankly, I had not felt so excited for a long time. Before the performance I had watched many videos to see who sang ‘Ukraine has not yet perished’ at the opening of various tournaments and how they did it.
“Our anthem is quite static. It is written in the style of a march. If you compare it to the American anthem, in the latter there is more space to show your vocal skills, which was actually done by Aretha Franklin and Beyonce. In this case, it was hard for me to add some features without changing the melody and actually the sense. So, I simply decided to put my heart in it – so that each word was coming through me.
“For the most part it was gratifying to read the commentaries of the audience on my Facebook page. Someone said it was a life-asserting performance. Someone else wrote about hope I gave with my singing. Yet another person said I sang the Ukrainian anthem in the American manner. What did they actually mean, simply the vocal skills? Would singing in a soulless manner be more Ukrainian? I sang the way I felt. When I was performing the anthem, I felt like crying. Similarly, my eyes fill with tears when I sing Ukrainian folksongs or Crimean Tatar songs. I even don’t know why.”
On your Facebook page there is a photo with Crimean Tatar leader Mustafa Dzhemilev. Do you maintain relations with him? Are you simply acquaintances?
“My father for a long time used to be head of the Muslim community in Malorichenske, my hometown. Namely during that period he met Mustafa Dzhemilev and Refat Chubarov. Correspondingly, as his daughter I knew them, too, because I often performed at Crimean Tatar celebrations. Only later I realized the magnitude of these two men. For instance, I have always found it exciting that Refat Chubarov spoke Ukrainian. Like Mustafa Dzhemilev, he spent most of his life in struggle. And he continues to struggle.
“When after ‘New Wave’ I returned home from Yurmala, I received telegrams with greetings from Dzhemilev and Chubarov. It was gratifying that they noticed my victory.”
There are many ethnic Ukrainians in the Crimea. But unlike the Crimean Tatars, they for a long time haven’t shown solidarity in defending of their rights. Therefore a sad joke appeared that Ukrainians are Crimean Tatars in the Crimean peninsula.
“We, Crimean Tatars, have achieved much during the years of Ukraine’s independence. I have recently visited my parents. During my stay I agreed to give interviews to the programs of Crimean Tatar radio and television which have emerged in the past few years. Happiness is when you have an opportunity to be yourself.”
On May 18 last year you wrote on your Facebook page that you joined your people in their mourning over displacement of over 180,000 Crimean Tatars on that date in 1944. You call to remember this tragedy in order to exist. What other historical events should Ukrainians remember in order to live?
“The Holodomor of 1932-33, the execution of kobzars near Kharkiv in 1934, obviously the displacement of the Crimean Tatars, repressions carried out by the Soviet power on the whole... I appeal to remember the abovementioned tragedies in order to prevent them from repeating, so that life in our country was valued, after all.”
MY MUSIC NEEDS TO BE APPREHENDED
On March 24 you presented your new album All or Nothing. This was the second online concert in Ukraine (after Okean Elzy’s). How did the Ukrainian audience react to this event?
“My online concert was taking place namely in the time of the anomalous snowfall, therefore most of people were following the way bad weather was tackled and hardly paid attention to music events. Besides, it turned out that mobile phones and tablets did not support this format, so one could watch the concert only on PC. Probably that was the reason why the number of viewers was less than we had expected. Or probably people have become so indifferent to music that it is more important for us to put likes and repost the pictures with cats and dogs, or funny cards than really interesting links on Facebook. I am not judging, simply stating the fact. But the number of offline views of the concert is constantly on the rise, so I am sure, everyone who is interested will finally see it.”
If such online concert took place in another country in Western or Eastern Europe, would the number of viewers be considerably higher?
“There are more people in Europe who listen namely to this music style. They are being raised on this music. For example, I have never met anywhere such music lovers as the Dutch. They listen to good music everywhere! I remember I entered a grocery shop with a badge of participant of North Sea Jazz Festival (Rotterdam), and the shop assistant asked me right awat, ‘Are you from the festival? How did Esperanza Spolding perform?’ [Esperanza Spalding is an American jazz singer, Grammy winner in the nomination ‘Best Singer of the Year [2011]. – Ed.] Can you imagine? And in our country only a narrow circle of professionals knows her.
“However, I myself have chosen this kind of music, therefore many people in Ukraine do not understand me.
“On the other hand, the practice of online concerts is quite new, in Europe as well.”
Last year in an interview to The Day you said that Jamala’s audience would develop together with her. Is it developing? I am asking this because the policy of degradation is being carried out in our country, deliberately or not.
“In fact, you can feel this degradation. We used to read books, now we read quotations in Facebook. We used to listen to whole music albums, now we simply download on our IPads tracks that Google or mobile operator offer.
“But in spite of everything the audience I have won is developing on a par with me. On the whole, my audience is increasing. Probably the reason is that I am true to myself. I am following a path of my own. And faithfulness is attractive.
“Surely, I want the music I create to be more popular, in the sense of demand. However, I don’t want to achieve this by making it closer to pop-music. I don’t see anything bad in the fact that people do not remember well the melodies of my songs right away. There are many songs easy to remember, but people soon get bored of them as well. Apparently, one needs to hear my music. Actually, I named my album All or Nothing, because I think that either you like everything about it, or you don’t like anything at all.
“Incidentally, there are several Russian songs in this album. The reason is not in my desire to be demanded (although it is normal to want this). Neither is it a desire to please radio stations. Neither ‘Cactus,’ nor ‘I love you’ are frequently rotated. Until recently I have considered Russian language unsuitable for soul music. But after meeting writer Viktoria Platova I have created Russian songs.”
When will you write songs in Ukrainian?
“I have written two of them already. One will probably become a soundtrack to the film A Guide. In my last year’s interview to Den, it seems to me, I said that my music shapes the language. It exists in the language it appears.”
Incidentally, is the principle “all or nothing” principle is typical of you?
“No. I think people should be satisfied with small things: be thankful everyday for having arms and legs, something to eat and to wear. But the person must not betray his/her dreams.
“And I wrote the eponymous song in the period when in the relations with a man I suddenly realized that if I would be satisfied with a little, I will get dissolved in him and lose myself. So, I decided: all or nothing. Relations are important for a woman. Probably this is the reason why she is often a maximalist in relations.”
During the concert you mentioned that your mother had advised you to flirt with a man when he makes a declaration of love, not revealing your feelings to him. And you said that you cannot to that. So, do you devote yourself completely in the relations?
“Sometimes even too much. At some point woman realizes that there must be a man near her with whom she will make a whole.
“As a result of emancipation we are constantly shaping and building ourselves, at the same time ceasing to be women. And then we start to reproach men, saying there are no true men left. No, men are what women allowed them to be.
“For example, my father has been the bread earner in our family. Yes, my mother was working in a music school. She always gave me and my sister money for dresses and tights. (Father did not understand why we needed so many. He thought more about how to build a home). I must say my mother did not know where to go to buy potatoes, carrots, and onions. My father took care about this, too.
“And at the age of 29 I am thinking, haven’t I been free for too long? Let me explain what I mean. I feel irritated when I need to adapt to another person. Probably, the reason is that for a long time I have been witness to my girl friends’ dissolution in marriage after the wedding. So I am thinking, was not it right to give girls in marriage at 16? She did not know what awaited her, so she did not fear (chuckling).
“In fact, meeting someone half way means concessions, not sacrifice. There can be no sacrifice when you love someone. I am ready for this.”
RUSSIANS ACKNOWLEDGE THAT UKRAINIAN VOICES ARE THE BEST IN THE POST-SOVIET SPACE
Let’s come back to our conversation about music. In the archive of your performances schedule for last year and the year before the last includes Russia, Kazakhstan, Greece, Italy, and Great Britain. I am personally glad to see the expansion of our musicians, be it the West or the East. What direction is a priority for you?
“I don’t know the whole of Russia. I could speak separately about Saint Petersburg and Moscow, because they are different for me like two different countries. The residents of Saint Petersburg are very hospitable. They sincerely like Ukrainian music, speak about Okean Elzy, Boombox, Ivan Dorn, Jamala… Incidentally, my solo concert was a full house. I was impressed as well by the way the audience was taking autographs – people were standing in a line.
“As for Moscow residents, only 15 percent of them listen to good music: they visit philharmonic society, opera theaters, and jazz clubs. As a rule they are intelligent, tolerant, and they are not chauvinists. On the whole, when you come on a tour to Russia, you can feel politics in the air. ‘Your market is too crowded, come to ours,’ you won’t hear it said aloud, but it is often meant. However, at the same time Russians acknowledge that Ukrainian voices are the best in post-Soviet space.
“Apparently, I would like to win the hearts of those 15 percent of Muscovites, but I am not doing anything for this aim on purpose: I don’t go cap in hand to Alla Pugacheva and Igor Krutoi, which is a necessary thing to do. I simply go when I receive proposals.
“Of course, I am interested in Europe, especially Great Britain. Incidentally, last year my photo was on the cover of well-known Asian magazine published in Great Britain AGI London. Before that, namely in the heat of the Olympic Games, I performed in London-based Bosco Club. Although the club was considered a sponsor of the Russian national team, I was presented as Ukrainian singer. Besides, the audience included not only Russians, but also Britons.
“My fan club has recently emerged Holland. It was created by Ukrainian emigres who popularized Jamala among the local people. They are ready to invite me to Rotterdam with a concert. Clearly, I would like my audience to grow in different countries.
“Doubts are one of the greatest foes of people. And faith in God helps you to get rid of doubts and go ahead. On the whole, God helps me in everything. Who would I have been without Him? Frankly speaking, I avoid people who do not believe – in Christ, God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or Allah. My friends include Christians, Jews, and clearly Muslims. We often discuss the topic of God. I even like to compare the writings of the Bible, Torah, and Koran. Of course, everyone sticks to his/her own opinion, which is very important.
“It surprises me that God is so rarely mentioned in our country. When you say in Ukrainian music milieu something like ‘Thank God, my album is released,’ you are considered almost a member of a sect.
“I came across an interview with Hollywood actors. And I was impressed that almost everyone spoke about faith, using the words ‘Thank God’ many times throughout the interview.”
You have taken part in the documentary about Kvitka Cisyk which will be screened soon. What does her creative work mean to you?
“There are few people that did as much for Ukraine as Kvitka Cisyk. People will keep coming back to her album Two Colors for a long time. It is recorded on a very high level with the help of symphonic orchestra musicians and professional arrangers. Incidentally, Kvitka Cisyk spent her own 200,000 dollars on the album. And I understand her. It was the sense of her life.
“In faraway America a singer felt like Ukrainian. When I listen to Two Colors it becomes especially clear.
“You know, I even wanted to found a festival and name it after Kvitka Cisyk: folk music would be performed on the first day, jazz (which she liked very much) – on the second day, and opera, for instance, on the third day. I was greatly disappointed to hear most of people with whom I shared this idea ask: who is this?
“I dream that Ukrainian music became integrated into the world music space, and was not considered the music of third world countries. I liked what Kvitka said in an interview: ‘I have completed a new plate Two Colors.’ I had not paid attention before that a plate sounds like something monumental. Her words became prophetic.”
