Kyiv’s National Ivan Franko Theater, which ended its 87th season with the premiere of Petits Crimes Conjugaux, is on tour in Sevastopil from June 16 to 29.
This past season three guest directors, Vladimir Kuchinsky, Yurii Kochevenko, and Linas Zajkauskas, staged On the Square in the Middle of Paradise; Vivat Regina! and The Caucasian Chalk Circle, respectively Continuing the theater’s orientation on European values, Bohdan Stupka, the artistic director of the Franko Theater, also invited Krzysztof Zanussi, the famous Polish film director and theater producer to work with his company. Audiences saw his production of the psychological whodunit Petits Crimes Conjugaux written by the French playwright Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt and translated by Nadia Nezhdana.
This production was prepared in a short time and in quite an unusual way. Actors Iryna Doroshenko and Oleksii Bohdanovych, who played the main roles in the two-person play, and assistant stage director Dmytro Chyrypiuk, went to Poland to visit Zanussi. For two weeks they lived on his estate near Warsaw, where they held intensive rehearsals. They worked between 10 and 12 hours a day, and their efforts, mostly based in Poland, paid off.
Then the rehearsals continued in Kyiv, again under Zanussi’s supervision. Plays are never rehearsed this way in Ukraine, and the actors found it difficult to get used to such a hectic pace, the result of the director’s busy schedule and chronic lack of time. But this concentrated effort helped Iryna and Oleksii open up new facets and hidden potential of their artistic individualities. Zanussi was so pleased with their work that during the first rehearsal he exclaimed, “I love you!”
Zanussi’s main character traits are amiability, sincere interest in any person who communicates with him, and readiness to open up his immensely rich spiritual world. He has an aristocratic manner and an intellectual mind. He always wears a pleasant smile. I had a chance to speak with him and the main actors.
Your name is more often associated with the cinema and you are primarily a film director. What place does the theater occupy in your creative life? Does it take up much of your time?
“I have been working in the theater for a rather long time, but of course, not as long as in the cinema. I’ve made about 40 full-length movies and staged just 30 or so theatrical productions. I have put on various plays in different theaters; even operas. The theater is a laboratory. I like the fact that I have enough time during a production, and my actors and I can reach important and interesting depths. I can sit quietly, work, and think. Figuratively speaking, the roof does not leak in the theater; it is comfortable here. It has nothing to do with shooting a film. In the cinema, I have to take actors the way they are and shoot a scene in a few minutes’ time. What I especially like about the theater is working with actors. As a spectator, I adore the theater and find the language of the stage very interesting. I am doing theater that is close to the cinema, i.e., psychological and chamber-like. This is my genre, something I can do well. I like watching extravaganzas and huge scenes with fantastic theatrical effects if they are done by somebody else; it is interesting for me as a spectator, but I will never do this kind of production as a director.”
How did you hit upon the idea of staging a play at the Franko Theater?
“I visited Bohdan Stupka, who was being filmed for my television play (some time in January). We began talking about working together, and we had a deal in 10 minutes. When I found a slot in my schedule, I invited Iryna Doroshenko and Oleksii Bohdanovych to Poland because I couldn’t get away to Kyiv for a month. We worked hard, and the production was roughly conceived at my house.”
Was it you who chose the Schmitt play?
“Yes, I had already staged this play in Germany, and I wanted to get back to this subject, this time in a new interpretation with Ukrainian actors. Two people on stage, limited space, and closeness — all this appealed to me as a director. I think this play is clear to the contemporary Ukrainian public, to people who have begun to discover freedom for themselves but also, unfortunately, to lose some values that once existed in our countries. Complex relationships and the marriage crisis — all this is coming up, and Schmitt’s play is precisely about these things. The Kyiv production is completely different from the German one; there are other intonations and accents. The actors’ charisma also affected the production.”
Are you satisfied with the way the Ukrainian actors worked?
“I have no complaints about the actors. I felt very well and comfortable in Kyiv, working on the production and mixing with the actors. We would even forget about the oppressive heat: all we had to do was leave the theater.”
Are there any differences in the way our actors work, in their school of acting, their approach to rehearsals?
“Of course, there is a huge difference. The traditions of Slavic countries are different from Germany’s. Ukrainians have a far more emotional approach, while Germans are more pragmatic and technical. In Italy, too, there are certain specific features. Naturally, differences of culture and human development are obvious in various countries, but the main thing is the result — the birth of a new production. I am always lucky to work with top professionals. Well, the Western European school is closer to me in spirit. It was a revelation for me in Ukraine to see your actors working in such a self-denying fashion. Sometimes passions ran high at the rehearsals.”
But the overblown emotionality of actors is not a bad thing on stage.
“I don’t think so. There is always the danger of hysterics, when people are crying on stage but the audience is left indifferent. I think actors should try to make the audience sympathize and weep.”
You visit Kyiv quite often. Do you like the Ukrainian capital?
“Kyiv is a very interesting and pleasant city. It is a true legend of beauty which is, nevertheless, being marred a little by the chaos of young capitalism. Over time, when this nascent capitalism becomes a bit more civilized, there may be some improvement to the architecture. There are many absolute eyesores that disturb the style of your city. But this is the seamy side of our times, which you can see not just in Kyiv. I am sure a system for protecting urban beauty will be developed.”
Does Ukraine interest you as an artist?
“As our close neighbor, Ukraine cannot but interest me. The link between Poles and Ukrainians is organic, and many of our families have some Ukrainian roots; there are certain points of contact. I cannot imagine a Pole who does not care about Ukraine or its art.”
You have the reputation of being a person who lives in a frantic rhythm.
“I think this is normal.”
You manage to do so much. As a philosopher, have you developed any formula for the meaning of life?
“If I could express this with words, I wouldn’t be making films any more. I would just be surfing the Internet and sending texts by cell phone. No, it is even dangerous to invent a formula. Once you devise one, you will only be restricting yourself. Wisdom is always hidden, and it is impossible to express its essence in a single sentence. So it’s better not to.”
When you attended the Bulgakov Festival in Kyiv, you said that Bulgakov is not your kind of writer. Who is?
“Thomas Mann. I am very interested in Joseph Conrad — he is close to me — and Kafka. As for Mikhail Bulgakov, I have high esteem for him as a writer, but he doesn’t speak to me as a reader and film director.”
One of your books is called Time to Die and your best known film has a sad subtext in its title — Life as a Fatal Sexually Transmitted Disease. Is your book about death?
“No, its content has nothing to do with death. I explain everything in the book. And I must say it is a very funny title. I very much like what the Apostle Paul said about letting the old man die in him so that a new one could be born. I meant the revival of man — what happened in Poland after the downfall of communist power — the revival of the human soul. This is what I tried to say in the book, that it is time the old man died, i.e., the ‘Soviet spirit’ that used to suppress us and can still be found in some people, and whose ugly features sometimes surface among us.”
What worries you the most in your artistic and everyday life?
“It is perpetual conflict, one that will always exist — the brazen conflict between high culture and loutishness, which has now risen like a wave. It existed in the same measure before but it was not so brazen. Now it is running riot before our very eyes, especially in the post-Soviet countries, where there were serious upheavals. In those countries one can clearly see the rise of people with low culture, a low education and spiritual level, who under the influence of freedom decided that they have the right to lecture others, while remaining at the lowest level. In my opinion, this is a real affliction.”
Can art have an impact on this situation?
“Without a doubt. Art creates new elites, and they should have an impact on society. Ordinary people never influence developments: this is the preserve of elites. Formed by the people, the elites will then draw them in their wake. And the main problem is who will be the elite in our day. Of course, these will not be the nouveaux-riches that we are seeing today. It is just the first generation that usually vanishes. These millionaires will not stay around long. A second and third generation will come, and there will be a glimmer of hope.”
Is nationality important to you or are you a citizen of the world?
“A citizen of the world is a person who loves all nations. But he must have a nation of his own, and he must love and recognize it. Nationality must have an address. My address is crystal clear: I am Polish. There are countries that are dear to me: these are Italy and France. But I hold myself responsible for Poland. I am ashamed to hear that Polish border guards cheat or take bribes. If I knew that French border guards are doing the same thing, I would be angry but not ashamed. That is the difference and meaning of nationality for me.”
Are you thinking about casting Bohdan Stupka in one of your films?
“We’ve talked about this. I have a plan. But Stupka is too young for the movie I am going to make. We should make him a bit older.”
You teach, give a lot of master classes, and meet young actors and directors. What do you usually tell them?
“You should ask them what they have memorized and understood from what I told them. I’m afraid they didn’t memorize very much. I conduct a lot of meetings and master classes at various levels. This is serious professional work, not for amateurs. I have entirely different approaches when I conduct a master class for very young actors and for mature professionals. Once a year I hold a master class at the Higher Film Direction and Script-Writing Courses in Moscow — this is almost a practical lesson. I try to make listeners focus on concrete aspects, particularly on dramatic tension. I emphasize this because today’s scriptwriters no longer narrate. So for every audience I find a topical subject.
“I had interesting contacts in China. We discussed some elements of European behavior, which they don’t understand at all. For example, what does a suntanned person mean? Who can be a tanned person and who cannot? I don’t think most Europeans ever think about this. But oddly enough, the presence of a suntan shows affiliation to one class or another. A high- society lady cannot have a tan, but a girl Friday can. Who will have long legs? A lady will not, but a waitress will for sure. These are interesting subtleties.”
What are you going to do after your work is finished in Kyiv?
“I have a television project in Warsaw: shooting is scheduled for the summer. I’m going to make a feature film in Poland. And I will leave Kyiv for Rome to attend the premiere of my latest Italian film The Black Sun.”
