On the third year of existence of Odesa International Film Festival, its masterminds decided to change the concept and pay tribute to serious art house cinema by including Serhii Loznytsia’s new film In the Fog into the competition program. And they made a right choice: professional jury awarded it with the first prize. But even before that, the picture already won a number of prizes: FIPRESCI in Cannes, grand prize at the Golden Orange Film Festival, and others. This tragic story of the false accusation of the main hero, and his existence in such conditions could have happened not only during tense and horrible war times. The film is filled with wit, grace, and love for details, so typical of its author. Brilliant cast headed by Volodymyr Svirsky (Sushchenia) make their moral choice with tactful psychological precision. Camera work by Oleh Mutu is also praiseworthy; it is the second picture Loznytsia and Mutu have been working on together.
Having started off as a documentary filmmaker, Loznytsia now is a holder of more than 40 prestigious cinematography awards. His debut full-length film, which was shot in Ukraine, was the first Ukrainian film to be included into Cannes competition program, and later it received numerous awards from renowned film forum professionals.
Loznytsia has his own unique view on films and their influence on the audience. It was one of the main subjects of our conversation.
First of all, I want to congratulate you on the success of In the Fog at Cannes, Orange Film Festival, and the third Odesa International Film Festival. This is a great success. Your debut film My Joy is about tense “military landscape” of today, it is about recent history and the system of human relations. While in your latest film you turned to war classics, Vasyl Bykov’s novel. Perhaps, there was something important in its plot for you. Why did you choose this novel, and what was the most important thing you wanted to express?
“I would not say that the first film is about ‘military landscape.’ In some way, it is a description of disintegrating space. In My Joy the main character is not really a ‘full-fledged character’: he is a mere conductor in this space. From the point of view of classical dramaturgy, he does not commit a deed that changes something in the world. While In the Fog has a complete character with his tragedy. I read Bykov’s novel in 2001 and decided I should make a film based on it. The idea has been with me ever since, but I did not have funds to realize it. Mikhail Kalatozov was supposed to be the initial producer of this picture, we have been looking for money until 2005. And then we had to put that idea off for a while.”
Judging by your first film, your casting is very precise. Did you already know who would play in In the Fog, or did you have to look for your actors?
“It is almost impossible to figure out the cast beforehand. I work with a casting director, Maria Baker. We had a lot of casting sessions in different cities: in Moscow, Saint Petersburg, Warsaw, Riga, Vilnius, Daugavpils. As a result, I have found the actors I needed.”
The system of relations in modern world is built in such a way, and the world is divided into, let us say, kingdoms in a way that every person has their own war. And everyone talks about this war depending on how they understand it. So, there is no such thing as a single point of view on history. When you decided to bring up this topic, when a person is falsely accused, makes his choice, and the circumstances eventually lead him to his death, did you think about such things?
“If I did not think about these things, I would have never taken up this story.”
And what thoughts did you have exactly? I am wondering, because today each person has their own history.
“I do not understand what that means. There are historians, journalists, and writers. There are scientists and interpreters. Who are we talking about right now?”
So do you not think that historians are interpreters?
“If we are talking about history, then from my point of view we can talk about facts. A fact is an event that occurred at a certain point of time. Somebody bombed somebody else, this is an event, and it had happened. History talks about facts. And then comes a moment when we start discussing why this or that event had happened. And that is where all kinds of different interpretations appear. And you cannot control these interpretations. And everything depends on whether the interpreter will be astute or thick-witted, whether s/he will comprehend the genuine essence of the event or miss the point completely. The hard thing is that existence of two contradictory interpretations is acceptable. For example, let us look at General Vlasov. In what way should we treat him? Opposite interpretations of this person’s actions are possible. It is just like in real life. It is just like in Faust: ‘I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good.’ These are Mephistopheles’ words. And how should we treat it?”
You have screened the film for a rather diverse audience already. You have brought it to France, Karlovy Vary, Armenia, and Ukraine. What are your impressions of the audience’s perception?
“It is hard for me to make final conclusions on the impressions. Screenings in France, Karlovy Vary, and Armenia were wonderful, I also liked the audience’s response in Odesa. But I do not know yet… I can only speak about some details, for example, about film critics that I have had meetings with, or movie journalists, both Western and Russian. Western ones differ from each other too, but there is a chasm between them and their Russian colleagues.”
Why is that so?
“Because for some reason almost all foreign film critics treat authors with respect.”
Both of your pictures are co-productions. The first one was shot in Ukraine, and it represented Ukraine in Cannes, but the second one represents Russia. Is there any difference in the cooperation system? Where is systematic work easier and of better quality?
“In Latvia, where In the Fog was shot, the state supports co-productions, they refund VAT: if you invest one million in shooting, you get 20 percent back, which is 200,000 in this case. This is a great help, and this is right, because investments are drawn to this country in such a way, and it supports economy. Latvian crew we have been working with is very professional, its members have a great level of training. I hope to invite most of them to work on my next project. Unfortunately, Ukrainian group required professional training on all stages. This is caused by the absence of decent cinematography and film production in Ukraine. We shot the film in 28 days in Latvia, and we have actually been shooting during 26 of them. The staging was very complicated, some shots were really hard, with camera on the crane, on the railroad tracks, with intraframe cut, in the woods, with the weather changing between sunny and rainy all the time. And we managed to succeed only thanks to the brilliant and professional crew. (In Ukraine, for example, it took 40 days to complete the shooting.) And we also managed to succeed because of great level of preparation. Everyone knew what exactly we were shooting, actors were ready on time, which left only some technical issues for clarification. That is why we sometimes managed to shoot about seven useful minutes per day. This is a very high efficiency output. Though everything was done so fast that I did not even have enough time to think, therefore I let a couple of minor mistakes steal in the final version of the picture.”
Ukrainian cinematography was in strained circumstances when you were shooting the film here, and the state took no part in the process. But today the government finally directed their attention at filmmaking, financing was increased, open pitches are held, etc. Therefore, now it is possible to receive considerable financial support from the state. Have you thought about working on your future pictures in Ukraine?
“When we were shooting My Joy, we counted on the state’s support. Our producer Oleh Kokhan thought he would receive it. I do not think that the phrase ‘Ukrainian cinematography is in strained circumstances’ serves as a reasonable excuse, because in this country everything is in strained circumstances all the time. But nevertheless, if the government wants to finance something, they will surely find the money for that. I know that our minister of culture was in Cannes, and I know that we did not receive support because he did not like the picture at all. That is the truth.”
But personal likes or dislikes cannot serve as adequate criteria.
“You need to talk to the minister of culture about that. And as for the government support, besides money, there are laws that regulate the way you can spend this money. And if you create a co-production, like it was in my case, these laws have to correspond to the ones of other countries that participate in the co-production. And I am not quite sure that they do. At least as for right now, there is no such adequate law. For example, I do not know what the salary for the filmmaking crew is. Because the salary I knew existed in the past is miserable comparing to the one paid to filmmakers in Europe. And we are forced to resort to some shady activities, because I cannot pay the world-famous camera operator the sum that our Ministry of Culture is offering. But I do not want to get involved in anything shady. If your legal documents read that you have two million on film production, it affects the distribution of profits, film budget, participants’ shares, and you need to actually have those two million in real life, instead of just having a number written on paper. And of course, the producer has a right to spend them in the way which he thinks is the most appropriate. And in order to achieve all this, all we need is to bring our laws to conformity with international standards. Just look at Poland, it creates co-production projects with other countries just fine. Look at their laws, adopt them in Ukraine, it is that simple. There is no point in re-inventing the wheel. Germany works in accordance with such rules, so do Poland and France. They would not be able to participate in co-production if the all the rules were different. Latvia works in the exactly same way. So why can’t Ukraine do the same? Oh, do not even say that Ukraine is so special that these rules cannot be applied here. It is all the same here too. The government needs to change its conception of how the movies are made, or filmmaking will just cease to exist.”
What are the distribution prospects for In the Fog?
“The film was bought by all European countries, even those, in which my films were not shown in cinemas before, for example, Great Britain. It was bought by the New Wave Cinema company, which distributes art house. It will be distributed in Italy, and also Malta. Spain is a great country for distribution too, and the film will be shown there. So, we have the whole Europe covered, which means that producers started making profit. The picture was also bought by Brazil and the US.”
And what about Russia and Ukraine?
“Russia will show it at the end of 2012. Russia is a co-producer, so the number of distributors increased.”
Today, after you became known as a director of art house films, and after both pictures received a number of awards, is it easier for you to work?
“It is easier for me to find funding. It was rather hard to find money for the first picture. It was pure luck and coincidence that we have met Oleh Kokhan. If not for him, that film would not have been made. And Kokhan fulfilled all his commitments, which was remarkably pleasant. The shooting was not easy, we had a budget of about 1.5 million. And for the new picture we have found financing in five different countries. It was hard to collect money, but we found it in about six months. We started with pitching in Rotterdam, then we appealed to a number of foundations. We received about a million from Germany, which made our budget equal to about 2.1 million. Russian Cinema Fund was the last one to pitch in. We have already had Russian co-producer Valentina Mikhaleva, who got us private investment from the JP Company. And we also received small sums from everywhere: the Netherlands, by selling distribution rights to France and Poland. So, this is how we got our budget. Actually, 2.5 million (the sum we managed to collect) is sort of an upper limit. If you want to produce a more complicated picture, like the next film I want to shoot in Ukraine, you will require a bigger budget. We are trying to calculate it now.”
Who is the producer of the new project?
“Rick McCallum. He works with George Lucas, and made the latest Star Wars. He does have an extensive ‘record of service.’ When we met, it was him who offered me to make the next picture. This will be a whole new level of production, and I hope we will successfully complete it.”
What genre is it going to be? Will you move away from art house?
“Why? The rules stay the same. Final cut is mine, all the professionals: sound operator, editor, and others, are the people I have been working with.”
What is the film’s literary basis?
“I just started writing the script, and it will be about the time period of 1941, from August to the beginning of October, the story will take place in Kyiv.”
Is it going to be about the surrender of Kyiv?
“About the surrender of Kyiv, the colossal capture near Kyiv, life in the city in this period. The film will end with the shootings of Jews in Babyn Yar. Those were horrible times.”
Are you not afraid that some interested side will sponsor the film production and drag the politics in?
“I would like to avoid that. I will do my best not to leave a chance for this to happen.”
Is it possible to have a civic stand and at the same time dissociate from politics and the current political situation?
“Yes, it is possible to abstract away from current state of affairs, why not. But the thing is that all real politics is in the past. Everything that is happening right now is the unsolved problems of the past. There is no modern politics. I repeat once again, it is all the unsolved issues, which our politicians are constantly trying to hide under the carpet and pretend that there are no issues whatsoever.”
Is it not hard to walk on such a bumpy carpet?
“Yes, the carpet is bumpy, which proves that there is no politics, only problems are constantly tossed under the carpet.”
