Many experts think that the recent decision of the Turkish parliament to permit Turkish army troops, whose numbers have reached 100,000 to 150,000 soldiers, to carry out military operations against Kurdish terrorists in northern Iraq, may accelerate the creation of Kurdistan. Are there any grounds for this conclusion, and what were the reasons behind the Turkish parliament’s decision? What concrete results does Ankara expect from Baghdad in the struggle against Kurdish terrorists, particularly the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK)? These and other questions are raised in The Day ’s exclusive interview with Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Turkish Republic to Ukraine Erdogan ISCAN.
“The Turkish parliament authorized the government to make an incursion or cross-border operation into northern Iraq against the PKK terrorist organization. This authorization is valid for one year and the timing will be up to the government. It may use the authorization within one year, or it may not use it at all in the event that the Iraqi government cooperates and gives us some concrete results. The fact is that the PKK is a terrorist organization that is recognized as such by the US and the EU, and some other countries as well. And this terrorist organization is based in the mountainous region of northern Iraq. You know that for a long time we had kind of power vacuum in northern Iraq since the beginning of the 1990s, and the terrorist organization established its camps there. Today, advanced technological possibilities enable us to establish the facts easily. We have all sorts of intelligence and information that they are there. Aerial photographs show where they are. I would like to remind you that the US administration also said that it would share its intelligence. So, it is an unquestionable fact that the PKK terrorist organization is based in northern Iraq.
“The second fact is that the PKK is launching attacks from northern Iraq into Turkey. It has clearly increased its vicious attacks on Turkey. During the last month it has killed 40 Turkish citizens as a result of terrorist attacks. No government in the world can continue to tolerate or remain indifferent to such developments. As a matter of fact, the Turkish government has been acting with extreme patience and giving a chance to diplomacy and a peaceful settlement of this problem. We have been in contact with the Iraqi government and the coalition forces led by the US. We have given the Iraqi authorities a chance to stop the terrorist attacks launched from northern Iraq into Turkey. In September, the Iraqi prime minister was in Turkey. We concluded an agreement with the Iraqi government, aimed at adopting measures to eliminate the terrorist threat. Unfortunately, the regional administration in the north did not have the will to implement this agreement. Thus, the September bilateral agreement turned out to be unpersuasive. During the recent visit by Babacan, the Turkish foreign minister, to Baghdad, the Iraqi side proposed to send a high-level delegation to Turkey with concrete proposals. In the last days of October, the Iraqi delegation headed by the Iraqi defence minister came to Turkey with certain proposals. But we understood that those measures were of secondary importance, and the results could be accomplished only in the long term. On the other hand, needless to say, time is of crucial significance here. We need concrete measures with tangible results.”
What do you mean by tangible results?
“The terrorist attacks are continuing. They come, hit, and go back. Terrorism is an international problem. No country is immune from the threat of terrorism. And no country can possibly eradicate the terrorism problem totally on its own, neither the US nor the European countries, without effective international cooperation and solidarity.”
“Thus, international cooperation should be rendered more effective to tackle this growing problem facing the international community. Turkey wants the terrorist leaders to be captured and tried, or extradited to Turkey because they committed terrorist crimes in Turkey. And so they should be tried under our legislation by an independent judiciary. This is one tangible result. The second tangible result would be the closure of those camps. It is no secret where those camps are. We want those terrorist camps to be closed down. This would be the other concrete result of effective cooperation against terrorism. In spite of all our patience and persistent efforts vis-a-vis the fight against terrorism, the result so far has been disappointing. Hence, the Turkish government is left with no option but to make its own cross- border operation to undertake the clean-up operation in northern Iraq and close the terrorist camps so that attacks will not be launched from those camps. The Turkish government remains committed to acting under international law. It is a legitimate right for every government to protect its borders, its territorial integrity, and the lives of its citizens. We will resort to diplomacy until the very last moment. Nevertheless, I wish to reiterate that, when diplomacy ends, then Turkey will do whatever it takes to exercise its right under international law to protect its borders and the lives of its citizens and establish security in that region. We will not hesitate to do that.”
Some people say that the Turkish parliament’s decision was aimed in some way at putting pressure on the US to use their influence on the Iraqi government to prevent attacks on Turkish territory from northern Iraq. Is your country satisfied with the US role in resolving this problem, especially in the light of Erdogan’s meeting with Bush?
“Before Prime Minister Erdogan met with President Bush yesterday (Nov. 5) in Washington, we had earlier contacts as well. US Secretary of State Rice was in Ankara and had contacts with my authorities and she also went to Istanbul on Nov. 3 to attend the Expanded Iraq’s Neighbouring Countries meeting. Let me remind you that this process, initiated by Turkey, is enlarging and becoming more effective. Why did Turkey initiate it? Turkey has always attached importance to the territorial integrity and national unity of Iraq, as well as its prosperity. It is in our interest to have a stable Iraq preserving its national unity as well as its prosperity. That is why we initiated this process. On Nov. 3 in Istanbul, all the foreign ministers who attended the meeting adopted a very strongly- worded final communique. After the meeting, Prime Minister Erdogan, accompanied by a high- level delegation, visited the US and met with President Bush. It was decided to establish result-oriented cooperation between the competent authorities, including the armed forces. The two deputy chiefs of staff of Turkey and the US will remain in constant contact, share information, and act together with a view to eradicating terrorism.
“Another important result of the visit of the Turkish prime minister to Washington is that President Bush described the PKK not only as a terrorist organization but also as the enemy of Turkey, Iraq, and the US. He therefore reiterated his dedication and commitment to fighting against this terrorist organization in cooperation with Turkey. The results address our expectations. Now we will see if tangible results will be achieved. But if within a reasonable timeframe no tangible result is achieved, then Turkey will remain determined to do the cross-border operation. A possible military operation in the north of Iraq will not be an invasion. It will be conducted in accordance with international law, particularly in compliance with United Nations Security Council resolutions 1373 and 1566, as well as other relevant instruments of international law. Turkey will remain within international law. I repeat: it will not be an invasion. No inch of Iraqi territory will be invaded. It will be an incursion: we will go, clean up terrorists, and come back. And only terrorists will be targeted. Civilians will not incur any casualties. It is the duty and responsibility of every country of the international community to respect Turkey’s legitimate right to fight against terrorism and show solidarity with regard to fighting against terrorism.”
One Russian news agency report cites one of the Kurdish leaders, who proposed that Russia should be invited to negotiate between the Kurds and Turkey. This was stated in particular by the representative of Iraqi Kurdistan to the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) Babakr Khoshavi. In your opinion, does your country need such an intermediary to resolve this problem?
“First of all, we do not give credence to statements or proposals by terrorists or anybody who may be affiliated to terrorist organizations. As regards the contents of this proposal, we do not need any intermediaries to talk to the Iraqi government. As I said before, we are in constant touch with the Iraqis. I am confident that Russia understands Turkey’s position.”
Mr. Ambassador, does the Kurdish question have deeper roots? I have seen Reuters photos that show that the Kurds living on Turkish territory near the border with Iraq are dissatisfied by the fact that local people are taken to serve in the Turkish army.
“No. There are no such roots. But let me tell your readers what has happened in Turkey since the beginning of 2001. Let me also explain what the situation was prior to 2000. Turkey has always been dedicated to integrating into Western structures and complying with European and international standards with regard to democracy, human rights, and other related matters. But in the 1980s and 1990s, the Turkish governments had to cope with the vicious circle of fighting terrorism, which did not allow them to allocate time and resources to the more effective realization of reforms. What happened in the late 1990s? The Turkish governments achieved success in the fight against terrorism. Relations with Europe improved, and the EU granted Turkey the status of candidate country. This was a major incentive: success in the struggle against terrorism plus incentive as the EU candidate. In the 2002 parliamentary elections the Justice and Development Party (AKP) won the majority in parliament and a single-party government was formed. Since 2002 enormous reforms have been realized in Turkey. Democracy and human rights standards were impressively upgraded. That is why in 2004 the EU Commission concluded that Turkey had satisfactorily complied with the political criteria and recommended to launch accession negotiations with Turkey. The EU Council agreed with this conclusion, and Turkey started accession negotiations in 2005 based upon this judgment of the EU Commission. At present, we are a negotiating country for accession to the EU. We aligned our legislation with international instruments and standards, set particularly by the judgments of the European Court of Human Rights. In addition to aligning the legislation, as a result of effective and comprehensive training programs, we also made enormous progress in implementing constitutional and legislative improvements in Turkey. I do not mean that we have reached the point of perfection. Has any country reached the point of perfection? I do not think so. Turkey, like other countries, has shortcomings. But it is important to maintain the will to continue the reforms and improve the situation. Now Turkey 2001 and Turkey 2007 in terms of democracy standards are much different. Turkey is a much better country in terms of compliance with modern democracy and human rights norms. In view of such an argument, one might expect that terrorism would also diminish or disappear. Obviously, terrorism is not interested in having more democracy or better human rights. In European countries as well, one witnesses increasing waves of terrorism despite high standards of democracy and human rights. Terrorism will not deter Turkey from continuing the reforms. We will continue the reforms not only for EU harmonization or other international obligations, but for providing our citizens with better standards of life. In Turkey, there is no single region or province that is inhabited only by one ethnic group. There are several ethnic groups in Turkey. The Kurdish ethnic group is the largest. But it is not the only group. Turkish citizens of Kurdish origin do not live solely in one particular region. They are all over Turkey. The majority of the population in south-eastern Turkey is Kurdish. But we must not forget the fact that the number of Turkish citizens of Kurdish origin in the western regions is much higher than the number of citizens of Kurdish origin in the south-eastern part of Turkey. They are all over Turkey. They have never lived in isolation. In his statement at the National Press Club in Washington, Prime Minister Erdogan said that among the 340 deputies of his party in the parliament, 75 are Kurds. Our Kurdish citizens have always held important positions, be it political, economic, social, or cultural. No ethnic group is discriminated against in Turkey. The economic problems in the southeastern part of Turkey affect not only the Kurds. International bodies, including the EU, the Council of Europe and the European Court of Human Rights, have endorsed the fact that Turkey has made enormous progress in improving rights for all citizens of different ethnic backgrounds.”
Some mass media have reported that nearly 90 percent of Kurds would like to create their own country of Kurdistan. Can such a country appear one day?
“This is a total misrepresentation. This is not correct. First of all, Turkey is a country of 70 million people. We do not know the exact population of diverse ethnic groups. We might estimate that there are 15- 20 million Turkish citizen of Kurdish origin. Someone may suggest other figures. Let us look at the results of the last parliamentary elections held in July this year. The governing party won a majority again with 47 percent of the vote. The social democratic Peoples’ Republican Party got around 20 percent. The Nationalist Movement Party got 15 percent. This clearly indicates that the overwhelming majority of the population voted for these parties that are expressly for the unity of Turkey and against any division or separation. As I mentioned before, the majority of the inhabitants in the south-eastern part of Turkey are citizens of Kurdish origin. The governing party (AKP) of Prime Minister Erdogan received around 50-60 percent of the votes in that region. In view of these facts, it would be incorrect to reach such a conclusion.”
