Official contacts between Ukraine and Germany have been rather limited in the last while due to Berlin’s negative attitude to the way our country is tackling the Tymoshenko case. What is Germany’s vision of the solution of this case? Is Berlin aware of the importance of signing the Association Agreement for both Europe and Ukraine? This is the subject of an exclusive interview with Karl-Georg WELLMANN, an influential Bundestag deputy, member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, in charge of cooperation with Ukraine in the ruling CDU/CCU faction, who led the German delegation at the first international business conference “ABC: Ukraine & Partners 2013” held last week.
Mr. Wellmann, as we are speaking right after the conclusion of the business conference, I would like to hear your impressions of it. Do you think it was useful?
“It was very useful because it was attended by people from more than 60 countries, including business people and politicians, and we had very good discussions, especially on the energy issue.
“Yes, of course, it was useful. I mean, Ukraine is a very important country for Western investors and many of them are present here. It was the first conference and it was organized quite well. And we also met very important politicians, the prime minister and the deputy prime minister. It was a very good opportunity to meet, to discuss business and politics.”
Is this conference going to encourage German investors (who, as is known, have been leaving the Ukrainian market) to come back and bring in money?
“Yes, because some companies are now investing in Ukraine. For instance, Ferrostaal, in the energy sector. And if a big company like Ferrostaal comes here, others will come, too. Because they say now it is possible, they have a good experience, and politicians in Ukraine are willing to improve the situation. So, it was very good.”
This means you can see that Ukrainian politicians are striving to make changes. As for the Association Agreement, is Chancellor Angela Merkel prepared to sign it now?
“Wait and see, we are working on that.”
What exactly do you mean?
“Positively, there is a strong influence to bring Ukraine nearer to Europe. I, personally, am very much in favor of the Association Agreement for Ukraine. And this is a very important year for Ukraine.”
That’s right. But this year seems to be also important for Europe.
“Yes, of course. I mean, Ukraine is a European country. It is not Africa or Asia, it’s Europe, and Kyiv is a European metropolis. So you belong to Europe, that’s for sure.”
President Komorowski said today at the Central Europe summit in Bratislava that European countries must help Ukraine do its best to be able to sign the Association Agreement in November…
“So, Mr. Komorowski is a very wise man and he is right. We support him and there is a very good cooperation with the Polish government. And they support very much the accession of Ukraine to the EU.”
And not only Poland. As is known, most of the EU countries, except for Germany, France, Sweden, and the Netherlands, support signing the Association Agreement. Or is Germany taking a different attitude?
“No, they are not against. They say: we have certain conditions, these conditions have been set up by the European foreign ministers half a year ago, so they are waiting for Ukraine to make progress on certain reforms in the judicial sector and we really hope that this will work.”
But the summit is just a few months away, while reforms require so much time…
“It’s always about the time. If not in November, then next March or so. It’s always about the time. But if you want, you will have time.”
To what extent is the release of Tymoshenko important for Germany to decide whether or not to sign the Agreement? All the more so that it is not so easy to do as it seemed at first.
“Yes, for the public opinion it is quite important and we have the issue of selective justice, of course. But I, personally, do not want to get involved in judicial cases. I mean, it’s up to Ukrainian court to decide what will happen to her.”
Incidentally, some Western experts, who often visit Germany, are saying that the Tymoshenko case is now perhaps one of the country’s main domestic political issues. Is this true?
“No, not anymore. I mean, it has cooled down quite a bit, you know. She is a pretty woman, blond hair and, of course, this will always make a good story. And our proposal to release her so that she could go for medical treatment to Germany would be a good solution. She seems to be quite ill, so, we have offered to let her go to Germany or Switzerland, or America, wherever, so that she could receive medical treatment. That’s what President Komorowski is negotiating with the Ukrainian government.”
In other words, you believe that the Tymoshenko case will be solved in this way?
“I hope so. I mean, it would be better for psychology, for the public opinion. It would ease a lot of things. It would speed up things. I know it is complicated for Ukraine, but you have found a solution regarding the Lutsenko case. So, let’s try to find a solution on the other case also.”
But why is Merkel not contacting directly with Yanukovych? Because of Tymoshenko?
“No, not really. I mean, we have set a condition and if Ukraine gets the Association Agreement, the contacts will be quite normal. I mean, there are normal contacts between the members of government. We are just working on a visit of Deputy Prime Minister Arbuzov to Berlin, meeting members of the government. So, that is our mutual interest.”
What is your impression of the Ukrainian opposition? Are its actions about signing the Association Agreement productive?
“Well, they all are very much in favor of the Association Agreement. So is Mr. Klitschko, so is Ms. Tymoshenko, Lutsenko, Yatseniuk, all the others. They say: sign the contract. I mean, the opposition is on their way, we are interested to see whether they have a joint candidate for the presidency. But we cannot interfere or get involved from the outside, that’s the Ukrainian issue.”
Some Ukrainian publications have written today that the West supports Klitschko.
“No, we definitely do not support any candidate. I mean, if somebody says that Klitschko is a candidate of Chancellor Merkel, that’s completely wrong. Mr. Klitschko is, or both Klitschkos are very popular in Germany because they are brilliant sportsmen, brilliant boxers. Germans love them both, but as sportsmen, as champions in boxing sports. I love them as well. But politics is another thing. We will not interfere and say he is our man, he is our candidate. We will accept anyone who will be elected by the Ukrainian people in fair and open elections.”
Many Ukrainian experts believe that Merkel made a mistake at the Bucharest summit, when she opposed granting Ukraine the Membership Action Plan. Will she make the same mistake at the upcoming Vilnius summit?
“I mean, I don’t think that Merkel will lose in the elections, the polls are very strong for her – she has over 40 percent. And I think she will remain the German Chancellor, I’m convinced, I hope so. Of course, I will support her strongly because she is doing very well in Europe. You know, Ukraine is not in her focus, she is 24 hours a day busy with the European affairs, the Europe crisis, the EU Commission, and other issues. So, let us wait for our elections and then we’ll proceed very constructively, I guess.”
How can this be done? For Russia is in fact trying to restore the Soviet Union.
“Yes, this is primarily a decision to be made by the Ukrainian government, Ukrainian people, to decide what you want. And we hear from everybody – we want to joint the European Union. I mean, not as a member now, but we want the Association Agreement. And then it is our proposal – we would like to have the Russians nearby also. We would like to associate, I mean, Russia also belongs to Europe, from the view of culture, history, and values – that’s a European country, too. We should work with each other, not against each other.”
Incidentally, what is Germany’s attitude to the fact that Ukraine signed a memorandum on cooperation with the Customs Union and the eventual granting of the observer status?
“Well, the observer position is ok, because Ukraine has large trade volume with Russia. Of course, there are interests in Ukraine on customs issues and tax issues, and so on. I fully understand Prime Minister Azarov, when he says: we have our trade interests there. And we don’t want to disturb them. But very clear is the full membership in the Customs Union does not go together with the Association Agreement. Ukraine desperately needs modernization. And you will receive this from the EU. Ask Poland, it has been experiencing this since 1993. And now Poland is a very successful and prosperous country. And it is a model for Ukraine, too.”
After Azarov had signed the abovementioned memorandum, Andrii Yermolaiev, director of the National Institute of Strategic Studies, told The Day that Ukraine may become an intermediary between the European Union and the Eurasian Economic Community. What do you think of this idea?
“No, Ukraine is not in the position of moderating. You have to decide whether you want to belong to this side or another, what your model and interests are. And I think you should get access to the European Union, then we will have to cooperate with Russia. We want close partnership and cooperation with Russia, too, and that’s it.”
