Warsaw – Kyiv: Adam Michnik, a renowned Polish public figure, political dissident, one of the most active representatives of the political opposition of 1968-89, editor in chief of Gazeta Wyborcza is always open for communication with his colleagues. During the visit to the office of Poland’s first democratic newspaper by the journalists from the six Eastern Partnership nations, he was able to find time to talk to his colleagues and take several photos. Today, Michnik is as frank in his opinions about certain Eastern Partnership leaders as usual. He also shared his views on the processes currently underway to the east of the European Union.
“There is a cold snap in the east of Poland and EU. Not everything is perfect here, but many Central and Eastern European countries are NATO and EU members. That is why I hope that nothing bad will follow.”
It’s hot in Moldova...
“As far as Moldova goes, I think that everything going on there is a result of Moscow’s cunning politics. There is virtually no state there. On the other hand, the new leadership does not know how to deal with Romania. On top of this, the situation in Moldova is a real catastrophe. Simply unbelievable. I have been to Moldova, and I traveled there via Ukraine. These are just two different worlds. Ukraine is a catastrophe compared to Poland, but in comparison with Moldova, it’s Manhattan.”
And compared to Belarus?
“I’m on Belarusian president’s black list. I haven’t been there for years now. Maybe, fifteen. They will not grant me access to that country. But you know, I am still optimistic in what concerns Belarus and Lukashenko. Because he thinks he will remain in power till kingdom come, but it’s not the case. Even Stalin proved to be mortal. I think that Lukashenko is past his prime. The most intriguing thing is what is going to happen at “moment zero,” on the first day after Lukashenko’s fall. No one knows that. And this may be the most dangerous moment for the nation, because Lukashenko has opposition not only among the democrats, but also among certain circles in Moscow. For Putin he is almost what Ceausescu used to be for Brezhnev. A sovereign dictator, but a bit too independent. It was he who said that even Hitler hadn’t done to Belarus what Moscow did. They do not like it. That’s why I think that at the moment after Lukashenko’s end, everything will depend on Moscow’s actions, and also on whatever public support pro-Moscow forces will have in Belarus. I spoke with a certain man from the Kremlin, and inquired about Lukashenko. He said that everything was going to be alright: “We have got a proper dacha not far from Babrak Karmal’s, where we have reserved a room for Lukashenko, so it’s all right.”
What if we compare Yanukovych and Medvedev, or Yanukovych and Putin? What will you say to such a connection? Are they historically comparable?
“I’m afraid – I think that until now, Yanukovych hasn’t had any idea as to what kind of state he wants to create. He thought that partnership with Moscow might be a possibility. However, from Moscow’s perspective, Ukraine is not Poland. They still haven’t realized that Ukraine isn’t Russia, either.”
About this, Kuchma at one point in time wrote a book entitled Ukraine Is Not Russia.
“I have read this book. You know, Kuchma’s opponents in Ukraine were Ukrainian communists. Now, the division line is different. I have been to Ukraine, to Western Ukraine. Every town carries Bandera’s portrait on the walls – and in Zaporizhia, they have unveiled a monument to Stalin. A choice between Bandera and Stalin? I will choose... Marlene Dietrich.”
Mr. Michnik, what is your vision of Russia’s future? Who do you think will run the country, Medvedev or Putin?
“This is not the main question. These are all personal issues. In reality, the problem is whether Russia will opt for modernization, and what kind of modernization it will be: more or less European, or more or less Chinese. No one knows that at the moment. It does not depend on who will be in office, Putin or Medvedev. This is not the most essential moment. In this respect, it is Putin’s or Medvedev’s entourage that matters. They are already waging a war.”
Can the EU influence Medvedev and Putin so that they modernize the country in a European style?
“We’ll see. When Gorbachev moved from Stavropol to Moscow, who thought that a Stavropol apparatchik would open the door to freedom? Nobody foresaw this. I didn’t, nor did anyone in Russia. We were watching closely, trying to make out what kind of figure he would cut. No one knows what is ahead. Perhaps, this is the real pressure. To rely on oil and gas alone? But what if the prices drop?”
When or how can the situation in the east of Europe improve? Can the eastern neighbors really integrate in the EU?
“If Russia opts for modernization, this fact alone can help improve the situation. But it isn’t going to be a bed of roses. Look at the European Union – it is not a bed of roses. Here, the regimes are different from yours, and we don’t really like it. Even in Ukraine no one was sure as to who would become president. During the election in Russia or Belarus, everyone knows, it is clear to everyone who is going to be president. Here in Poland, we do not know who is going to be elected president, and the election is close.”
