The president of Ukraine announced in early July that he was going to pay a number of official visits to Western European capitals. Yet only one date was named definitely – the visit to Germany on August 30. It is still unknown when the head of the Ukrainian state will visit France and the UK. What hopes is Paris pinning on the visit of Ukraine’s president to France? What is France’s attitude to the latest events around TBi and 5th Channel and the freedom of speech situation in general? Why does the current Ukrainian government need sufficient credibility? This is the subject of an interview with Jacques FAURE, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the French Republic to Ukraine.
FIRST OFFICIAL CONTACT
So when will President Yanukovych pay a visit to France?
“It has not yet been decided when the president of Ukraine will visit France. We are waiting for a reaction of the Ukrainian side to the visit date proposed by the inviting party. In general, we can see today that the agreements Nicolas Sarkozy and Viktor Yanukovych reached last spring at the Nuclear Security Summit in Washington are being implemented.”
What is the French side expecting from this visit?
“As is known, this will not be the first formal meeting of our presidents, as they had an opportunity to see each other during the above-mentioned summit held by our American partners. The point is this will be the first bilateral official contact on the invitation of President Sarkozy. The program of the visit is being worked out and will assume the final shape in September, when a Ukrainian mission will arrive in Paris to tackle this issue.
“So it would be too early now to speak about the concrete content of these meetings and the program to be proposed to the Ukrainian leader at the moment of his visit. With this in view, it would be perhaps too early to say more in detail about the expectations we have for this visit. Yet, on the whole, it is going to be an important meeting to which we attach great importance. I will say again that it will be the first official contact between our presidents. This meeting will enable them to broach a wide range of issues relating to bilateral cooperation as well as to other major topics of international and European life.
“Naturally, the bilateral component will occupy a prominent place in the program of this visit because we already have a series of projects on top-level visit exchange and on economic and commercial cooperation. This meeting will be an opportunity for the president of Ukraine to tell his French counterpart about the goal of the actions he is taking in Ukraine and the essence of the reforms he is proposing at the Verkhovna Rada, as well as to describe more in detail the current international positioning of Ukraine which has declared nonaligned status, and explain the way Ukraine can move, in accordance with its stated intentions, towards further rapprochement with the European Union. Besides, I think certain aspects of Ukraine’s domestic situation will also be discussed.”
As is known, the president of Ukraine paid the first visit to Berlin, which, as Foreign Minister Kostiantyn Hryshchenko said on the eve of the visit, “will enable us to express our viewpoint about the agreements we are trying to reach with the European Union and to develop bilateral relations with Germany.” I would like to hear from you what Paris thinks about the fact that Kyiv seems to be trying to discuss European Union-related problems with the German chancellor, thus upstaging France.
“I will refrain from commenting statements of your foreign minister. I am also leaving you the right to a view that Berlin is gaining priority of sorts, while Paris is slipping to the background. I will note on my part that Ukraine is negotiating with the European community as a whole, not with one EU member or another. No one but the European Commission is authorized to hold this kind of talks.
“It is in fact a manifestation of the so-called Realpolitik, when each of the 27 EU members can express its own opinion. And this opinion is taken into account. In my view, the Ukrainian side should understand that the ongoing talks are held with the European Union as a whole. I am sure it is somewhat erroneous and unproductive to believe nowadays that when you are holding talks with one member or another, you will manage to impose a certain attitude or decision on them.
“In my opinion, the delegation that negotiates from the Ukrainian side ought to remember that the measures recommended by the European side should be taken not just to satisfy the European Union but to meet the interests of Ukraine itself, to speed up its socioeconomic development and strengthen its place and role in the system of international relations.”
“ONE MUST PLAY BY, NOT BEND, THE RULES”
Mr. Ambassador, the mass media have reported today (the interview was recorded on August 19. – Author) that Senator McCain and former Secretary of State Albright have condemned the law on local elections in Ukraine. A little earlier, Polish ex-President Lech Walesa had written a letter in which he expressed concern over the freedom of speech situation in Ukraine in connection with the events around TBi and 5th Channel. Yet, for some reason, there is no criticism of the Ukrainian government on the part of major European countries. Is this a manifestation of Realpolitik? Is the EU not interested in Ukraine preserving the democratic gains won after the Orange Revolution, such as freedom of speech, elections and assembly?
“We have in fact stated that in reality the law, which was adopted and came into force after being signed by the president of Ukraine, does not fully comply with the standards and recommendations of, for example, the Venice Commission. In my modest capacity, I have also used an opportunity to tell the Ukrainian press that, in my opinion, it is not quite a right tendency to change the election law before every election campaign for the sake of political expediency. One must play by, not bend, the rules. Yet it is a law in force, and we accept it as a fact, still reserving the right to assess. This is an imperfect law, for its provisions show an attempt to keep some participants in the political process from taking part in this election campaign. I do not think that the development of the situation in this direction is fully correct and positive. It seems to me one should mull it over how to prevent this kind of situations in the future. Democratic standards set out that one who meets all the nomination demands can be a candidate. This opportunity should be given to as many participants as possible. And, finally, the voter makes the final choice among this wide range of candidatures. I will confine myself to this comment.”
Mr. Ambassador, you may have heard the statement of Transparency International which expressed concern over the freedom of speech in Ukraine. And we know that French Foreign Minister Bernard Couchener often makes political statements in such cases. Yet we have not heard official Paris urge Kyiv to meet its commitments to guarantee the freedoms of speech and the press. What would you say in this connection?
“I will say again that a Reporters without Borders mission has visited Ukraine. The Vienna-based International Institute of the Press made a statement recently. I do not know how to comment on the absence of commentaries on the part of our minister. It is perhaps the time when he comments to a lesser extent on the current events. This may be connected with an annual holiday to which he is entitled like anybody else. I will dare note that the things you are talking about are still the subject of court hearings in Ukraine. On our part, we are watching their course and waiting for the result of these hearings. I will stress that the French side does not have a shadow of a doubt that freedom of the press and information should be supported as much as possible. We are very closely watching these problems and never hesitate to make a statement that condemns the infringements of these freedoms. And should the aforesaid facts be confirmed, I think there will be a prompt reaction to this.”
Do you share the view of Hillary Clinton who said during her visit to Ukraine that the US had been inspired by “Yanukovych’s commitments to support democracy and freedom of speech in Ukraine”?
“We interpreted in a similar spirit the answer the president of Ukraine gave when asked about maintaining freedom of the press. He reiterated that this kind of infringements should not occur in this country. We took this statement into account.”
“ONE MUST GIVE SUFFICIENT CREDIBILITY TO THE CURRENT UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT”
Many experts in the West, as well as in Ukraine itself, are voicing concern over the fact that the Ukrainian government seems to be going to copy the Russian authorities and establish control over the mass media. What do you think of this?
“Yes, your question could be a good subject for a doctoral dissertation. (Laughs.) In my view, today’s Ukraine has a Ukrainian government which meets the existing realities, has its own vision of national interests, and is striving to defend the latter.”
What then can and must the European Union do to persuaded the Ukrainian leadership to implement in deed, not in word, the European model of ruling, adhere to European principles of democracy, and not to try to achieve stability by taking the Russian pattern of sovereign democracy as a model?
“It would be perhaps better to say what the European Union is already doing today, not only what it might do. In all negotiations between Ukraine and the EU, all the proposals advanced by the European side focus on bringing, as soon as possible, all the Ukrainian standards and practices into line with the rules, standards and practices that exist in the EU countries. We must admit that not all is perfect here and there is enough room for further progress in these matters. At the same time, it would be wrong to think that the Ukrainian side is doing or has done nothing to achieve this goal. Indeed, the Verkhovna Rada has drawn up and passed some acts on coming closer to EU standards. Once the MPs renew work in September, they will be invited to discuss a new tax code. Work is going on to prepare and carry out a wide range of economic reforms. One must give sufficient credibility to the current Ukrainian go-vernment or, in other words, give it a chance to implement the statements and promises it has made public. I have gained an impression from numerous social surveys, the results of which were also published in The Day, that a considerable part of the populace are fully aware of the current moment’s specifics and taking a positive view of the efforts the current government is making to achieve the declared goals.
“I think further efforts to stabilize and improve this country’s economic situation will produce a good result in this field. At the same time, it is inadmissible to improve material standards at the expense of social standards and democratic freedoms as integral parts of societal life.”
In my opinion, the involvement of Germany and, perhaps to a lesser extent, France in the modernization of Russia is aimed, above all, at the material aspect, and very little attention is being paid to democratic freedoms.
“Yes, I agree that everybody would be glad to see the Russian Federation manage to modernize not only its economy but also the social and democratic dimension of public life. I will say, without resorting to unnecessary polemics, that wildfires, which assumed a huge scale in Russia, have shown a dire need to reach progress in a nationwide modernization effort. We saw that wildfires had very grave consequences for the Russians. People were losing their houses, property, and family relics. The fires also had a negative effect on the health of the residents of many regions both inside and outside Russia.
“Our aspiration to cooperate with Russia in no way excludes similar cooperation with its neighbors, including, naturally, Ukraine. Further socioeconomic development of Ukraine is of the same, or at least no lesser, importance for Europe as is the development of Russia.”
Please tell me whether intellectuals play a positive role in your country and how the leadership reacts to their criticism? For example, philosopher Bernard Henri Levy has written the article “Sarkozy’s Three Errors,” in which he criticizes the president for his crime control initiatives, while Le Monde has carried an article titled “Sarkozy Loves Himself and Hates the Others.”
“We are now addressing domestic political debates in France. (Laughs.) We can say in general that any French president, who intended to carry out radical reforms in a short time, came under the fire of intellectual forces. For effecting a reform always leads to having to change the established manners of thinking and behavioral patterns. So the reform initiator has to pay a political price for this. I think the current president of France is fully aware of this and, in spite of everything, is pursuing his goals.
“It is still possible that the authors of the publications you mentioned believe that the concepts of certain reforms were not discussed broadly enough. This view also has the right to exist.
“Being quite far from France, I think the president has chosen a certain line and is determined to follow it. Undoubtedly, he will be running for the next term and may say in this connection: here are the concrete reforms I have carried out. Let’s wait and see.”
My last question may sound pessimistic, but I hope the answer will be optimistic. You may have read in our newspaper Zbigniew Brzezinski’s interview “The Decline of Europe.” What do you think of this and, particularly, of his claim that Europe is disintegrating?
“The representatives of US intellectual and political circles, who take interest in European problems, often repeat the question Henry Kissinger once asked: ‘Who do I call if I want to call Europe?’ I think they know who to call now that the Lisbon Treaty has come into force. Now they are raising the point of Europe’s likely disintegration, calling into question its very existence, not just the availability of telephone. But the truth is that the difficulties that occasionally come up on the path of European construction do not hinder this construction.
“Within the limits of this European-wide process, every member state has and exercises the right to voice its standpoint and to be heard. In my opinion, it is obvious that none of the EU member states could respond on its own to the challenges that the current world is facing. It is typical of us to resort to negotiations and seek a compromise. We think this manner is far more optimal than the once popular practice of confrontations which often led to sad consequences. Obviously, this manner also attracts the countries which are not EU members today but are striving to join the union. Ukraine is also among them.”
Have you heard a joke that there is an answering machine on Ms. Ashton’s table, which displays the following text: if you want to know the attitude of Germany, France, and Italy, press 1, 2, and 3, respectively?
“(Laughs.) A funny joke. But a widespread everyday life situation, when somebody keeps you on the line, without giving you a concrete answer but, at the same time, pumping some money out of you, is hardly suitable in our case. In reality, it is about a process that has difficulties of its own. But its successes and achievements are also obvious, and one cannot but see them.
“In conclusion, I will recall the fact that I like: the European way of thinking is now typical of the younger generation in many countries, including Ukraine. They are already thinking in the categories of Europe. One can interpret this in different ways, but I think it is real progress and quite considerable gains.”
