Every year about 100 young Ukrainians receive scholarships from the Center for East European Studies at the University of Warsaw. Since 1990 over 2,000 scholars, teachers, and students have completed different programs there — more than in any other program in Poland. Jan Malicki, a former member of opposition and now an influential public person and an expert in East European issues, is the founder and the director of the Center. He gave an exclusive interview to The Day and told about the work of the Center. He also commented on some of the international events bearing on European security.
How did it happen that you were a famous opposition member in the 1990s, but never became a minister or a diplomat? As we know, for nearly two decades, since 1990, you have been working in the Center for East European Studies. Can it be that you have different priorities than power and political aspirations?
“They say that fulfilling different concrete functions can actually be a substitute for politics. The real thing is that I have never found myself in politics and after the 1990s, when our cluster was in opposition, one of the editors of oppositional Oboz became a vice minister in Lech Walesa’s government, then an ambassador, and later even the chief of the Intelligence Service. Another one became an ambassador. I agree.
“Quite a few of my colleagues got involved in politics, but I did not. I sure had some offers in the 1990s for a position of a diplomat but from the very beginning there was something that hindered it. The thing was that I set a goal for myself to build a real university center, which is quite a difficult thing to do. A person becomes increasingly involved and always has enough work to do. I am certain that my goal has a large scale.
“Initially, the work of a diplomat looked very exciting to me because I thought it was very important. But today I can well see that the Center for East European Studies can do more by teaching students than any embassy in cooperation with any country. What concerns present-day politics, it is actually rather unpleasant to me. A person can be accused at any moment, no matter whether it is right or not. In this respect I prefer the quiet, positive, and long-lasting university work.”
Mr. Malicki, can you please tell us about the goals of your interesting institution?
“Let’s remember that the Center is the successor to two institutions: one is the underground periodical Oboz from the time of Solidarnosc and the martial law and the other is the Underground Institute of Eastern Europe, which I founded back in 1983. The top-priority goals included doing research, forecasting Eastern phenomena in Poland, promoting knowledge about East[ern Europe], as well as studying communism, post-communism, and the countries neighboring on Poland.
“Another task, which was impossible to realize in the 1980s, was training young cadres, in particular young specialists in the issues of Eastern Europe that were necessary for the Polish state, nation, and society. At a certain point, when we received funding from the State Scholarship Fund, we started teaching representatives of the neighboring countries in the same sphere — Eastern Europe. This made our third sphere of activity — regular trainings and gatherings of young people in Poland and teaching young elites and specialists from the neighboring countries. Here we run the Eastern Summer School, Eastern Winter School, Polish-Ukrainian School, Polish-Russian School, and Polish-Caucasian School.”
Mr. Malicki, what is the purpose in supporting foreigners, teaching them, and giving them money for professional training in Poland? We know that there are practically no such programs for foreigners in Ukraine.
“Poland offers these scholarships without expecting offers in return, just like England or the USA, which provide many scholarships without expectations of reciprocity.
“However, we are not talking about England or the US here. The question you asked was: Why does Poland do this? There are two obvious reasons for that. Providing aid to those who need it is a positive characteristic of a democratic county. This is a sign of the European civilization and democracy.
“The other reason is that there are those who want to participate. I don’t think that thousands of people would apply for a scholarship in Ukraine. I think it is all about opportunities. Poland has such opportunities and does it.
“Another question arises: Why does the Center have such a great number of these scholarships? There is a certainty in Poland, in particular in the powerful circles, that if our country can do something good and have educational influences, it could happen only in our region. We cannot teach crowds of Englishmen here. They have their own great schools, and moreover, they neither know nor want to study Polish.
“In contrast, Polish comes easy to Ukrainians. They are culturally close and are very interested in Poland. For both Ukrainians and Belarusians Poland is the first country to the west and that is why it attracts interest. And the most important thing is that it gives Poland an opportunity to teach future elites of the neighboring countries in a democratic and European style. In a long run it will ensure the presence of people who know Europe, Poland, democracy, and are raised on democratic and European values in the higher echelons of power.”
What does the cooperation with the alumnae of your programs look like? Are there many of those who remember their studies in Poland? How do they keep in touch and cooperate with the Center?
“In fact, well organized cooperation as I would like to see it is not there now. I would want more of our alumnae to cooperate with us. For example, when I start organizing a meeting of East Summer School alumnae, which has been operating for 20 years now and is the most serious institution of a kind, it turns out that people underestimate the importance of keeping in touch with each other. However, 60 or 70 people usually come to every such meeting.
“Perhaps I would like this number to be bigger, but I have to keep in mind that we deal with young people here, who make careers, get married, and change their place of residence. Maybe in some five or ten years they will be more interested in cooperation. Still this does not change the fact that wherever I go to the east of Poland, I always come across alumnae or a former holder of a fellowship from the Polish government — the Kirkland Scholarship, the Center for Eastern European Studies, and the Winter and Summer Schools.
“Friends of mine often tell me that they have met someone who remembered me, and it is always a great joy for me. People have very kind memories of the Center, the scholarships, and our work together. I often witness touching situations when a person comes up to me and says that the Eastern School has changed their life, even though it was 15 years ago. I have no doubt that this is true.”
How would you describe an average Ukrainian student as you know him? What are young Ukrainians like and how do they manage in Poland?
“An average Ukrainian scholarship holder has a better knowledge background than others. Even though Ukrainians tend to complain about the low level of education, it turns out that the situation is even worse in this respect in other countries. The general knowledge level of Ukrainians is pretty good. There are a few excellent universities in Ukraine with some good departments. Among them are the Department of History and the International Relations Department at Lviv University. There is also Chernivtsi University. There are several professors whose letters of reference I immediately accept as proof that their referees are worthy candidates.
“Students from Donetsk totally surprise me with their high level of Polish. It turns out that there is a department there where they teach Polish. Recently we had a girl from Kyiv Mohyla Academy for the Winter School in Wroclaw who was characterized … as extraordinary.
“Another thing that is special about Ukrainian students is that they master Polish very quickly, even if they started from a very low level. Ukrainians are very persistent the scholarly aspect and very devoted to the scholarly ideas they bring with them. Polish professors do not aim at forcing someone to change their ideas, but sometimes it takes reading three or four books before Ukrainian students realize that the views they have are not right. I would call it a kind of Cossack stubbornness, which does not have any scientific grounds, because the truth is the truth and you need to read sources to be able to understand obvious things.”
How would you describe the system of higher education in Ukraine? What do you think about the recently adopted school graduation tests and the reforms that are needed to enter the Bologna system?
“Let me draw your attention to two things and compare them with the Polish system of education. In Polish universities we were very much afraid of this, i.e., abandoning entrance examinations and switching over to the Bologna system in which there are no entrance exams, but high school graduation marks are used instead.
“Graduation tests then become the main ones and are followed by the selection process in [higher] education institutions. We were afraid that this could lead to the lower quality of training that applicants would have, but these fears proved to be groundless. The reason is that these graduation tests are fair and transparent. Of course, some universities also introduced interviews for some specialties — there are several of them that require more competence. This approach proved to be efficient. We have returned to the pre-war situation when an applicant simply enrolled and then could either complete his/her studies or drop out.
“I would encourage you to adopt the Polish example. It is necessary to understand that the graduation tests should be important, serious, fair, absolutely honest, and free of any fraud. If this is the case, education institutions will be able to handle the future training of students.
“Let me note something else: whenever I come to Ukraine, I always hear about corruption — in the country and education institutions. This, I believe, is dramatic! If corruption is not rooted out in Ukraine, starting from education institutions, the state itself will never change. If a young person on the level of a lyceum and then higher education institutions has to pay for something to happen (enrollment or exams), this means raising a ‘sick person.’
“In my opinion, corruption in higher education institutions is a lethal disease for the state and society, because an individual that is only starting to learn sees the worst examples and will follow them.”
