On September 5-6 the Foreign Minister of the Slovak Republic Mikulas Dzurinda paid an official visit to Ukraine. Regardless of his crowded schedule: the meetings and talks with the Ukrainian prime minister, Speaker, head of the Foreign Policy Department and the NGOs’ representatives, the Slovak minister, known in the EU as a successful reformer who managed to pull his country out of the “black hole” found the time to give an exclusive interview to The Day.
“I WANT TO USE MY STAY IN KYIV TO OFFER YOUR PEOPLE THE NEW OPPORTUNITIES…”
What is the purpose of your visit?
“Ukraine is the largest Slovakia’s neighbor that is why we are interested in having and developing the good neighborly relations. They are good and can be even better and more intensive in all the areas including the economy. So I am here to pay an official visit to speak to the leaders of your country about the cooperation in the area of energy and trade and about what should be done to increase the interest of people to travel to our countries and to increase the area of tourism. On the other hand, a very large, important and actual part of our agenda is the way of Ukraine towards the EU. This year can be significant because there are three documents to be signed and ratified: the association agreement, the agreement on the comprehensive and deep free trade zone, and, last but not least, the action plan on visa system liberalization.
“So I have arrived here to encourage the leaders of your country to finalize not only these documents but also your economical, social and political reforms to be able to fulfill the criteria of the club you want to join.”
As I know, you have already met the Speaker and the prime minister. Have you discussed with them Tymoshenko’s arrest and the trials of the opposition leaders?
“Yes, I have. However, I mostly discussed it with the Speaker. This is a political question that is why I did not speak about it with the prime minister a lot since I wanted to discuss mostly the economic issues. At the end of last week I attended the meeting of the EU foreign ministers in Sopot. That is why I feel it my duty to announce the results of the debates we had on Saturday morning about the situation in Ukraine. As a friend, I feel it my obligation to share the concern of the European family as for the further development of Tymoshenko’s arrest and the judicial proceedings against the opposition leaders. This question is in the center of attention of all the democrats and if the political fight follows this way it will be just impossible not to come to Kyiv and not raise this question.”
By the way, whose position does your country share: the one of the Head of the Polish Foreign Policy Department Radoslaw Sikorski who claimed that the EU is not going to cancel the talks with Ukraine about the association agreement and the creation of the free trade zone because of Yulia Tymoshenko’s arrest or the one of the French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe who was more critical towards Ukraine and claimed in Sopot that if Brussels and Kyiv sign the agreement on the political association its ratification will depend of clearing Tymoshenko of all the groundless charges?
“As a friend of Ukraine and a person who has collaborated with Yanukovych for many years I can say that I completely share the opi-nion of those who are concerned about this situation. On the other hand, I do not think we should cancel the talks about the association agreement. I am sure that we should sign it and simultaneously we should call for the Ukrainian authorities to change their attitude. I would say it is a much better scheme than cancelling or interrupting our debates. By the way, at the end of September Poland that is currently heading the EU Council is going to hold the summit of the EU and the Eastern Partnership countries. I believe that this platform provides good opportunities, especially for Ukraine.”
“ABROAD THIS JUDICIAL PROCEEDING IS PERCIEVED AS A STEP THAT IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH OUR VALUES”
Do you share the opinion of the authors of the article “Ukraine Is Losing its Way” ordered by the Project Syndicate and published in our newspaper that the EU should pursue a more active policy as for Kyiv?
“I have not read this article. I do not think it is necessary. I do not have to read this article since I have quite enough information. I know what is going on. I can only repeat: there is good news and worse news. The good news is that the government is keen on reforms. The good news is that Ukraine has decided to move towards the EU. The worse news is that there is a process against Yulia Tymoshenko. Abroad it is perceived as a step that is not compatible with our values: the freedom of speech and the freedom of political fight. These are the democracy principles. This is the point. The point is not that the abovementioned article was signed by Pawel Gawel and Dalai Lama. They had a right to do it. However, substantial is to understand that the political fight has certain limits. The limits determined by the European values. We have to stick to them. I believe that it is much better to prevail or win on the political arena than on the judicial one.”
“I AM SURE THAT YOUR COUNTRY HAS VERY GOOD EUROPEAN PROSPECTS”
You have probably heard from the Ukrainian experts and politicians that the EU gives little to Ukraine but requires a lot. What do you think the EU can do to help Ukraine faster integrate into the European family?
“The EU has to be open and friendly. Our basic treaty clearly reads that your country can decide whether to join the EU or not. I can tell you that the EU is very open. Some of the countries, for example, my country, are more interested in taking you to the European family. We are neighbors. I want to say that my house will cost more if the price of yours rises. It is very simple and natural. The people in every Ukrainian village are able to understand it. Everyone wants to have good neighbors. That is why I am interested in having a rich, sustainable, secure and good neighbor. However, nobody but you should carry out the political, economical and social reforms. We can only explain – I spoke to young people this morning – what the benefits or some limits of the European community are. I am sure that your country has very good European prospects, but Ukraine has to do its homework with our help.”
Everyone would agree with you that Ukraine has to do its homework. However, you know that the current government just like the previous one insists on mentioning in the Association Agreement preamble the prospect Ukrainian membership in the EU claiming that it would be a good spur for the country to take the path of the European integration. Is your country ready to support this request of Ukraine?
“I do not mind giving Ukraine the prospect, but I do not believe that it is substantial. Everyone knows that your future is in the EU. However, this way cannot be shortened. The people who think that the prospect recorded in the preamble will give your country any advantages, especially today when Europe is a little bit tired, are mistaking. It is extremely important not only to demonstrate but also fulfill all the necessary criteria. There is no doubt about it. As a friend, probably, one of the biggest Ukraine’s friends, I have to be open. It does not matter if something is written in the preamble; the substantial is your readiness to implement the pension and tax reforms and to adopt the labor code. And, last but not least, you have to convince Europe that your country is completely democratic and the democracy is stable and irreversible. It is essential.”
You have promised to be sincere. In March you claimed in Brussels that you do not see the depth of the reforms your counterpart Kostiantyn HRYSHCHENKO was talking about. Now, half a year later, can you see the depth of the Ukrainian reforms?
“It is very difficult to change one’s mind within such a short period of time. The problem is that the elections are slowly coming and bringing the new political cycle. I have to do justice to the government that is trying to change the things in many areas. We can only support and encourage such efforts. I want to use my visit to Kyiv to offer new opportunities to your people working in the Ukrainian Foreign Policy Department, in the Ministry of Finance and other ministries. In Bratislava we have founded the center at the Foreign Ministry aimed at sharing our experience of reforms and talks between Slovakia and the EU.”
Can you see the real interest from the Ukrainian government in using the experience of your country and, in particular, your personal experience of the prime minister who managed to realize the reforms your country needed to enter the EU and NATO?
“Yes, I can. I think we have something to share. We will share our experience since we are also interested in this.”
“THE DEMOCRACY IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR THE ECONOMY AS WELL”
Once you have said that the Slovaks should not fear lifting visas with Ukraine. Why do you think some of the old EU members are afraid of this taking into account that Europe lacks the qualified labor force?
“I do not think that this concern should be exaggerated. Look at Austria. It has opened its labor market and still has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the EU. I suppose that such thinking of some of the EU countries hides the concern if the democracy and the democratic principles have taken deep roots in your country. As the biggest friend of your country I want to emphasize that the democracy is incredibly important for the economy as well. If a country is democratic it allows competition and the competition leads to the prosperity. That is why it is extremely important to organize a pluralistic society giving a chance to all of its subjects. We want to be sure that the Ukrainians love the democracy and are able to protect it and all your decisions and tendencies are irreversible and sustainable.”
You have worked two terms as the head of the government. Do you find it easier or more difficult working as a foreign minister?
“(Laughing.) It is very difficult to compare. Sometimes a have a feeling that now I am very busy not only as the foreign minister but also a leader of the strongest governmental party. That is why I am very busy. However, these two positions do not differ that much. When I was the prime minister I also was in the center of the foreign policy. But I can tell you that I am very happy that my country changed a lot when I was the prime minister. It is impossible to compare Slovakia when I started working as the head of the government in 1998 with the country of 2006 when I finished my second term or with the present one. I am happy that after eight years of heading the government and four years in the opposition I managed to return to the government.”
Four years you spent in the opposition were the price for the reforms?
“No. What price? I was the only prime minister among the new democratic countries who headed the government for eight years. The people reelected us for the second term and after four years in the opposition people voted for us again. I am quite satisfied. I like being the foreign minister. I want and I can use my experience to the good of my country and the international community.”
“I AM HAPPY THAT MY COUNTRY IS IN NATO AND THE EU”
Looking through the materials about Slovakia I noticed that some of the Russian articles blame you and the new prime minister for serving the American interests. On the other hand, one of the Polish editions called you a person who supports Ukraine’s integration into the EU unlike your precursor Robert Fico who counted on the partnership with Russia and thought that Ukraine has to stay in the Kremlin’s zone of influence. Is the American ace used in your country for splitting the nation?
“No. As for the first point, this observation is false. I am quite surprised. I accept the right of journalists to write what they think is right. But I can prove that this is wrong. The confirmation of this is the summit of the US and Russian presidents held in 2005 in Bratislava. Why did I do it? I decided that Slovakia has the right to enter the EU and NATO keeping good relations with Moscow. Every country has a right to choose its future but it does not mean that if I decided to turn right those who decided to turn left are my enemies. It is completely wrong and such thinking is outdated.
“I believe in the Western values. I am happy that my country is in NATO and the EU. On the other hand, I am also happy that we have very good relations with Russia.”
Do you still like George Bush as you said back in 2005?
“Yes, I do. I had very good relations with George Bush. I think that he is an incredibly honest and courageous person. I am convinced that his main priority was serving his country. I like honest and courageous people.”
Thank you very much for the interview.
“You have prepared very well.”
I do my best for our readers.
