Even such an experienced politician as Leonid Kravchuk finds it difficult to make a clear and correct diagnosis of everything that is taking place in Ukrainian politics today. The first president of Ukraine is convinced, however, that certain rules should be followed even during serious family quarrels and that breaking these rules can destroy the family.
Mr. Kravchuk says that Ukraine’s current political “family” does not obey any rules, and that not only Ukrainians are laughing at the antics of our politicians but the whole world. In the following interview the former head of state makes his forecasts and offers his advice to the current leaders.
I have a rhetorical question for you, which has far from rhetorical implications. What is taking place in Ukrainian politics today, and how should one fight against this? Why are emotions playing the most crucial role in the actions of our high-ranking officials?
“I must admit that I cannot assess the situation precisely. I can only say that it is not typical. It seems to be a Ukrainian phenomenon, where state officials do not talk to each other. For example, when the prime minister calls the president, he does not answer the phone. Excuse me: this person is not calling for some private reason, but with regard to a decision that is important for the state.
“The president does not find it necessary to communicate with the prime minister because he has a negative attitude toward her. As far as I understand, they are moving policy to the plane of everyday life: they are quarrelling with each other like a husband and wife, a lover with his lover. But even in these cases, certain rules should be followed, believe me. But this is a game without any rules.
“I think this is the mark of incredibly low political culture on the part of the state leader. The president’s milieu, whose members should have helped him carry out his responsibilities and serve as an example of state building and state behavior, is helping him to engage in a crude showdown. Is it acceptable for the Presidential Secretariat to play (or pretend to play) its own game while the president pretends not to notice anything? The Secretariat thinks that turning Bankova Street into a bazaar is democracy, and that all-permissiveness, irresponsibility, and disregard for people’s interests are also signs of democracy.
“I have the impression that President Yushchenko is proud of the fact that he can dissolve parliament. You know, I have been observing him and, honestly, it seems to me that, just like a child, he takes pleasure in this. He walks around talking to himself, ‘I’m giving them one more day. I can disband them, drive them out, and put an end to their powers...’ As far as I am concerned, what the president says and what the Secretariat says are two ships passing in the night.”
You have just said that the president boasts of his possibility to dissolve parliament. There is a saying, “Why not deceive people when they want to be decieved?” In other words, why not dissolve parliament, if the MPs openly agree? They are talking about everything under the sun – the island of Sardinia, the conflict between the head of state and the prime minister at Boryspil Airport – everything but the need to avoid destroying the already shaky foundations of Ukrainian parliamentarianism.
“How shall I put it? Parliamentarians feel that this conversation is taking place between a mute and a deaf person. This conversation has been taking place for quite a while. I remember The Days when I was an MP and made speeches in the Verkhovna Rada during Kuchma’s presidency. I always said that we cannot disrespect and offend parliament. And look what’s happening today. A person visits a country and even there makes statements that we have a bad parliament. The current president goes to the US and devotes all his speeches to talking about his country’s bad prime minister. What else is there to say?”
Excuse me for interrupting, but did the Ukrainian prime minister behave normally in Russia when she was listening to Putin openly insulting President Yushchenko?
“I was just about to expand on this topic for the sake of objectivity. Yes, you’re quite right. It is shocking, to put it mildly, to see the prime minister on a state visit and not reacting to Ukraine being insulted. I think that in our country we can express our opinions in not very diplomatic ways. This is our right, because we elect people and we can put them in their place by criticizing them. But what if a foreigner does the same thing? At one time I heard Zatulin [a member of Russia’s State Duma] giving a speech in Luhansk. I think it was your newspaper that quoted him as saying that he was visiting a sovereign state and had no right to speak insultingly about the Ukrainian president. Last week in Moscow [during Prime Minister Tymoshenko’s visit to Russia] quite a different situation emerged, because Putin was speaking in the Kremlin, in his ‘own home’ in other words. Believe me, I am not defending anybody, but when guests come to my place I have the right to speak any way I wish. But as for the guest, his position is rather delicate. Once he has come on a visit, he should at least keep silent, thereby demonstrating that the host’s position is not acceptable to him. These are very delicate matters.”
The president and the prime minister are blaming each other for the troubles with the coalition and other problems. Meanwhile, no high-ranking officials are talking about taking responsibility for the crisis. Who, in your opinion, bears this responsibility?
“According to the level of his responsibility, it is the president. I am often asked, ‘Why do you criticize the president?’ Because, according to the Constitution of Ukraine, he has the greatest power and bears the greatest responsibility. After him, parliament, as the body forming the coalition and the government, according to the current Constitution, bears the greatest responsibility.
“But one should also distinguish responsibility to the people, the state, and the world. Here I single out the responsibility to the Ukrainian people, in view of all the difficulties that surround us. We are witnessing the world financial crisis. We can see the echoes of this crisis reaching us. Metallurgy is an example. Is it not clear? Don’t we have our own experience to understand that once the elections start (remember last year’s early parliamentary elections), prices, the currency, and everything else changes abruptly?
“So I am saying that if the dissolution of parliament is the most important matter for the president rather than the prospect that Ukraine may land in a very complicated situation, what else is there to say? Does it take a genius to see these real threats? People cite some insane examples, declaring that Italy and Poland used to have frequent elections. I know. But they have a formed government, a civil society, they have powerful parties, and these countries are standing firmly on their feet, whereas we have a very shaky situation, and everybody is aware of this. Probably only our leaders are not aware of this. All of them are nurturing hopes that they will win.
“Do you remember what the president and the NU-NS kept saying when they went into last year’s early elections? They said they would win no less than 35 to 40 percent of the votes. They even divvied up the posts: who was going to be parliamentary speaker and who would be the prime minister. Everything was arranged down to the last comma and period. And suddenly Yulia Tymoshenko wrecked all their plans, and the next day they started thinking about how to change the situation. They began saying they are against Prime Minister Tymoshenko, although all of them signed the coalition agreement.
Ivan Pliushch instantly adopted a special position. Everyone began voting or not voting. Then they reached the point of voting by a show of hands. I say frankly, without specific sympathies or antipathies to anyone, that in all these past months there has been a tempest in a teapot, which boiled down to changing the government. And we can see the result today. This is not accidental. If it were an accident, I would be speaking in milder terms. They were heading for this kind of result. This was well-planned, systematic, and consistent work by Viktor Yushchenko’s milieu and the Our Ukraine fraction to break the situation in order to regain power.”
What can the elections change? Will someone have a couple of more mandates and others will get 10 fewer?
“You know, I am certain that nothing will change because I cannot even assume for example, that the Party of Regions headed by Viktor Yanukovych will not enter parliament. No matter what Akhmetov or Kolesnykov say, people will vote for Yanukovych because he is a real leader whom people know. And they should not pretend to be great leaders because, I repeat, people vote for Yanukovych, not Bohatyriova, Kolesnykov, or Akhmetov.
“Besides Yanukovych, Tymoshenko will get into parliament. I am sure that the communists will get a few seats. Our Ukraine will get some as well, I think, but fewer than last year. In its time Our Ukraine won 20-23 percent of the vote, then its ratings dropped, and it won 12 percent in 2007, I think. If they win 4-5 percent, that would be a huge victory for them.
Although today’s political leaders don’t often heed your advice, what would you say to President Yushchenko and Prime Minister Tymoshenko at this moment?
“They have locked horns in their struggle and hatred for each other, so I think that my advice won’t be followed. I would advise everyone to get together and think about how to put an end to this mess and come to an agreement on how to avoid early parliamentary elections. Believe me, elections are the worst thing for our country because we will fall into an endless election routine. Society, which will be thrown into an uproar by these elections, will become ungoverned.
“What is my advice for today? Stop being the laughing stock of the world. I cannot stop them from deciding to hold early elections; that is unrealistic because they have already made this decision. The only possible thing at the moment is to stop this comedy and stop airing out our dirty laundry in front of Ukrainians and the international community. That’s the only thing that can be done right now.
“Another thing: if the early parliamentary elections take place, and they will, we have to find the strength, will, and wisdom, we have to show our culture, at least the smallest attributes of democracy, to show people that you are the government, not a gathering of incidental people who came to power on a wave of democracy and don’t know what to do with this power. One should behave like educated people who were placed by the Ukrainian nation on the Ukrainian Olympus.
“These are my two pieces of advice: don’t make yourself ridiculous in front of the whole world and stop the dirt that follows all elections in our country. If this dirt starts flowing like a river, then the possibility for decent people to get into parliament will shrink and shrink and shrink. Once again there will be closed lists, once again there will be devoted people, once again there will be button pushers, and everything will start all over again.
“Finally, I would like to say one more thing. If these two recommendations are not taken into consideration, then, believe me, a very nervous Fatherland Party (BYuT), the Party of Regions, the communists and someone else will get into parliament. And the first thing they will do within the framework of the Constitution and the laws is to do everything possible to impeach the president. Why? Because both society and parliament will view him as the person most to blame for leading the country to such a bad outcome.”
