On July 1 France began its presidency of the European Union. How does France view the results of the recent EU summit, on the eve of which Ireland refused to support the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum? Does the “ambitious partnership” proposed by the French president envisage a kind of associated membership for Ukraine? These and other questions are raised in The Day ’s interview with France’s Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to Ukraine Jean-Paul VEZIANT.
“THE SIGNAL RECEIVED IN IRELAND IS VERY CLEAR”
Mr. Ambassador, the recent EU summit was disappointing to European intellectuals. A group of 50 intellectuals wrote a letter, calling on Europe not to become a symbol of weakness and decay. How do you assess the results of this summit, on the eve of which Ireland refused to support the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum?
“At the summit it was resolved to take a break, so to speak. I am certain that Europe can find a way out of this situation. But time is needed for this. In general, I remain optimistic: let’s recall May 2005, when France and Norway stopped the process of ratification of the draft European constitution. Nevertheless, we came up with a simplified Lisbon Treaty. I don’t know how we will get out of this situation, but I am sure that we will find a solution. It is probably a question of losing some time (several months) and certain efforts. The signal received in Ireland is very clear. It means that the European choice is no longer clear to nations, and the European Commission should probably do better work in the sphere of communications, explain in a better way the content of the agreement and promote it. Hopefully, after the Irish ‘No’ we won’t have any other negative reactions of this kind in the future.”
So, you think that Europe won’t fall into reflection, like it did in 2005?
“I think that the period of reflection will be shorter compared to 2005. We have given ourselves time until the next session of the European Council, which will take place in October. So, we’re talking about a four-month period during which necessary work will be conducted. We cannot say that we will finally resolve this situation at the summit this autumn. But I hope that we won’t need years to do this. If the ratification process faces problems in other EU countries, we will need more time to find a solution.”
But during this summit a troubling signal connected to the statement made by President Nicolas Sarkozy, who said that EU enlargement is impossible without ratifying the Lisbon Treaty. This statement was interpreted negatively by Prime Minister Donald Tusk of Poland.
“Yes, the two highest-ranking leaders of France and Germany expressed their opinion, according to which it is difficult to expect any possibility to continue the enlargement process until ratification takes place.
“Of course, one can pose the question: what kind of enlargement is at issue? Does this refer to Croatia or any other Balkan countries? There is no clarity here.”
THE “AMBITIOUS PARTNERSHIP” AND A NEW AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE EU AND UKRAINE
Could you provide some details about the “ambitious partnership” mentioned by President Nicolas Sarkozy during his visit to Warsaw? Does it envisage any kind of associated membership for Ukraine?
“I think that you have had an opportunity to see how French policy has changed concerning the relations between the EU and Ukraine. This change is the result of political will on the part of President Nicolas Sarkozy. In recent months, as you know, intensive exchanges and meetings between the Ukrainian and French governments have taken place. The results of these exchanges were submitted by France for collective consideration by the EU member countries. You and I are aware of the expectations and hopes expressed by Ukraine. These questions are the subject of the negotiation process that is taking place now. Today, on the eve of two important meetings that will take place in Brussels on July 3 and 16 under the French presidency, it is difficult for a French ambassador here in Kyiv to say when a compromise concerning these questions will finally be achieved. Again, with a proper bit of humor I can note that I have noticed that Ukraine likes to choose the shortest way. (Laughs) This may rouse a kind of sympathy, but sometimes one needs to cover the whole way. In the end, this brings more advantages than saving time or covering the route in an easier way.”
So, at the moment Ukraine has no grounds to expect, as was mentioned during the recent meeting of the Ukrainian and Latvian presidents in Kyiv, that a new agreement between Ukraine and the EU will be signed on the basis of political association and the principles of economic integration.
“The details of the statements made during the Latvian president’s visit to Ukraine are not familiar to me. That said, I think that today’s approach, which will be a framework for the future enhanced agreement to include a free trade zone, is already proof of the will to have a certain economic integration. Speaking about the political component of the agreement, one should note that before the Ukraine-EU Summit this question will be considered at two meetings I have just mentioned. Firstly, the question is about Ukraine’s will to be involved to a greater extent in the decision-making mechanisms that exist now in the EU. Secondly, at issue is the name of the enhanced agreement.”
EUROPEAN PROSPECT AND POLITICAL STABILITY
Now that you have mentioned the Ukraine-EU summit, I would like to know: what does your country, which began its EU presidency on July 1, expect from it? What should Kyiv do beforehand so that this event will be a success?
“We want this summit to finish successfully, we want both sides to come closer and gain a better understanding of mutual expectations and aspirations. Ukraine expects certain political signals: both the European prospect and the possibility to implement a visa waiver regime. The EU, on its part, is expecting Ukraine to start implementing the reforms it has undertaken in a more determined way. First of all, this refers to the reform of the judicial system. On the other hand, the European Union wants Ukraine to take full advantage of the possibilities offered by existing formats of relations and instruments of cooperation, in particular, cooperation between the administrations of Ukraine and Europe, which is aimed at bringing Ukrainian management standards closer to European ones. The EU also wants to have the possibility to plan relations with Ukraine for the long- term perspective. Thus, the question is about the necessity to implement political stability in Ukraine, harmonious cooperation between the branches of power, where parliament will be able to work in a productive way within committees and approve corresponding laws. If Ukraine takes all these aspects into account, this will be a guarantee of success not only for holding the summit in Evian but for the longer term. Life won’t stop in Evian and we will continue to develop our relations.”
Can you say that the Ukrainian government is trying to take certain steps and fulfill the obligations on the way to summit?
“It is difficult to give you examples. I can recall the veto that Viktor Yushchenko placed on the law approved on June 3 on supplements to the customs tariff. In my opinion, this is a strong political gesture that attests to a desire to uphold the undertaken obligations when Ukraine joined the WTO. We can see that the budget approved at the end of last year needs to be amended: there is high inflation in the country, the budget revenue needs to be corrected, and new financing problems are emerging. Is the Verkhovna Rada able to approve the necessary budget amendments that the government will draft? This is also an important question. The vote of non-confidence in the government looks more real now than concrete positive decisions aimed at resolving urgent problems.”
“ONE SHOULD NOT LOOK WITH DISTRUST EITHER AT THE EU OR THE INITIATIVE OF THE EASTER PARTNERSHIP”
Some experts say that the Eastern Partnership may become a sort of concession by France to support the Mediterranean Union, which your country and a number of the countries in the southern part of the EU actively support. Is this so? How does France view the role of Poland and Sweden concerning this initiative?
“Chronologically speaking, it can be said that the so-called Barcelona process, which the draft of the Mediterranean Union is aimed at reviving, has a long history and reflects the EU’s wish to have special partner links with the southern countries. Now that France has the EU presidency, it wants to ‘waken’ this process, in particular via the creation of a small secretariat. Such an approach inspired the Poles and Swedes to take the initiative in creating the eastern dimension of the partnership. The Polish president and foreign ministers of the countries of the Weimar Triangle (France, Germany, and Poland) recently expressed their support for this idea. Ukraine is already part of regional cooperation formats, like GUAM. These cooperation formats are really useful and they should be welcomed. One should take the proposed initiatives in a positive way and avoid any distrust towards the EU. Moreover, it is Poland and Sweden that are taking the initiative -countries that openly support Ukraine’s European integration.”
Mr. Ambassador, are you familiar with the comment issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine: “We expect the final format of the Eastern Partnership not to become a hidden alternative to Ukraine’s future membership in the EU”?
“In my opinion, one should not look in a superficial way or with a sort of distrust either at the European Neighborhood Policy or the initiative of the Eastern Partnership. After all, this does not prevent Ukraine from getting ready and doing everything necessary to become a full-fledged candidate for EU membership some day. Today Ukraine has problems using all the possibilities that are envisaged by the European Neighborhood Policy: one should not impede any of the instruments that enable you to get closer to European standards.”
THE MAP AND THE ABILITY OF THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT TO WORK IN A COORDINATED WAY
Before the Bucharest summit, France said that Ukraine is not ready to receive the NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP). Has your country changed its position on this question? Can we expect Paris to give the green light to giving the MAP to Ukraine this December at the meeting of foreign ministers of NATO member countries?
“I cannot agree with the statements that France allegedly has a hostile attitude towards Ukraine’s accession to NATO. I will remind you of two things. We have French officers in Ukraine who are working within the structure of Ukraine’s armed forces, helping the Ukrainian army approach professional standards and get ready to take part in external operations. Secondly, we regularly invite Ukrainian officers to take part in training sessions held at the French All- Army College of Defense. Like the rest of the members of the Alliance, France has signed a clear statement to the effect that Ukraine and Georgia will one day become members of NATO. In addition, the decision was approved in Bucharest on the start of the so-called process of intensive involvement, which, as far as I know, has not been worked out in detail in the form of a road map. Certain steps within the framework of this process are already apparent, for example, the decision of the Ukrainian government to increase expenditures for the NATO information campaign.
“Secondly, the visit of the North Atlantic Council to Ukraine has taken place. Ukraine’s First Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Volodymyr Khandohii, held high-level meetings in Paris. We continue our dialogue. But it is too early to say what conclusion the French side will arrive at in December. How is Ukraine implementing the expected reforms? The defense minister states that not enough funds that are needed to switch to a professional army are being allotted. It is clear that political stability, i.e., the ability of the Ukrainian leaders of different executive branches to work in a coordinated way plays an important role in this set of problems.”
So, in fact you share the opinion of the German ambassador, who said that Ukraine needs political stability and increased public support for NATO membership in order to receive a positive decision concerning the MAP in December?
“These components indeed have an influence on this question. And it is up to the foreign ministers who will meet in December to synthesize all these elements and information that will come, including from our Ukrainian colleagues, particularly in connection with the question of the active work being done to switch to a professional army. So, to summarize I can say that France supports by all means the process of intensive involvement that will last until the meeting in December.”
“UKRAINE MUST MAKE THE DECISIONS IT CONSIDERS TO BE NECESSARY IN THE SPHERE OF SECURITY”
Mr. Ambassador, many experts believe that the decision of the Bucharest summit about giving the MAP to Ukraine and Georgia is the result of the Russian factor. Should one expect that the Russian factor will play a similar role in December?
“Ukraine must make the decisions it considers to be necessary in the sphere of security. At the same time, our statements on Ukraine’s sovereign right to approve these kinds of decisions do not prevent us from looking at situations on the continent in a complex way and predicting certain consequences that will follow one decision or another. For example, we can see that the initiative that was being realized not within the framework of NATO but on a bilateral basis between the US and the Polish and Czech republics concerning the deployment of elements of the anti-missile defense system led to significant changes in the general context of relations within Europe. From this point of view the statement was clear at the Bucharest summit: Ukraine and Georgia can become members of the Alliance. When and by what means will they do this? Time will tell.”
Will Ukraine’s joining the MAP worsen stability and security in Europe? Germany still seems to think so.
“It is difficult for me to answer this question. The answer requires a global consideration of the situation that is possible on the level of state leadership. It is not proper for the French Ambassador to Ukraine to draw such conclusions.”
Continuing the topic of the Russian factor, I would like to ask you whether France listens more to Putin than Bush, as foreign periodicals report.
“As you know, President Bush recently ended his farewell tour of Europe. He visited France and was welcomed by the French authorities. Russia’s Prime Minister Vladimir Putin also made his first visit abroad to Paris, where he met with his colleague Francois Fillon and the president as well. We have wonderful relations. President Sarkozy recently visited the US. Just like he did with the relations between the EU and Ukraine, President Sarkozy reconsidered the relations with the US according to the spirit of the times and analyzed them from the viewpoint of the current situation. So, I don’t see any preferences towards one country or another.”
Isn’t Paris troubled by the possibility that Moscow can buy Europe and is trying to split NATO, separating the US from the EU? This is reported by newspapers and experts are saying the same thing. During his first foreign visit to Germany, Russia’s President Dmitrii Medvedev proposed the creation of a European security package.
“Yes, during his first visit to Berlin President Medvedev expressed certain ideas concerning the new security pact. These ideas can be understood in a variety of ways: with a sort of distrust, say, Russia wants to divide or separate someone, as you mentioned in your question. Another approach is to look seriously at what Russia is really offering. I think that the content of these proposals should be studied thoroughly.”
But how should one interpret the article in the European Voice , which says that the EU should exert pressure on Russia so that it will ease access for energy companies to its territory?
“Foreign companies definitely have difficulties accessing the Russian market; there is a kind of asymmetry that is difficult to understand. On the one hand, powerful Western companies want to take part in developing deposits in the Russian Federation. On the other, Europe has a real distrust of the attempts of Russian companies like Gazprom to enter the joint- stock capital of Western European companies. I think that we should reach a logical end, take into account each one’s interests that have a mutual character, and bring the situation to the stage of equal access for everyone in the proper markets.”
EUROPEAN ENERGY POLICY AND UKRAINE
Mr. Ambassador, what is your vision of Ukraine’s role as an energy transit country? The Ukrainian president has called upon the EU to be more active and exert efforts to form a single European energy market.
“Yes, the topic of energy security will be one of the main priorities of France’s EU presidency. Today it is important to introduce dialogue among the consumer countries, transit countries, and producers. Energy security cannot be directed against one country or another. Some now insist that Russia should ratify the Energy Charter. I don’t think that Russia has a greater wish today than yesterday to ratify this document.
“At the same time, one can consider the possibility of including certain clauses in the future agreement between the EU and Russia being negotiated at the moment, concerning which all the sides will compromise. France, on its part, wants to clarify the situation of interdependence between Russia, which produces energy resources, and European countries, which are the consumers. We want Russia to be our stable supplier. Russia also wants to have a stable consumer in Europe, which can be useful at the same time, providing technology and expertise on other kinds of fuel.
“Ukraine occupies an important place within the framework of this concept of European energy security. We are seriously treating the situation in which the gas- transport system, which is pumping 420 billion cubic meters a year, has numerous weak places because of wear and tear. Therefore, during France’s presidency, the EU will consider the possibility to hold a donor conference that will unite such institutions as the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, the European Investment Bank, and others with the goal of collecting a certain sum of money that would be useful for Ukraine to modernize its gas-transport networks. A meeting in the Caucasus region dedicated to support for the project NABUCCO will be another significant effort. Thus, we want to give a new impetus to resolving energy security questions.”
French companies become interested in participating in an international consortium to develop Ukraine’s gas-transport network? A consortium of this kind was planned earlier with the participation of Ukraine, Russia, and Germany.
“In my opinion, the idea of a consortium is not topical today. I recently met with the representatives of Gaz de France, and they did not mention any possibility of taking part in such a project.”
RAINE SHOULD TAKE CARE THAT THE EXCESSIVELY HIGH INTEREST ON THE PART OF FOREIGN BUSINESSES DOES NOT OVERHEAT THE UKRAINIAN ECONOMY”
Speaking about the activity of French companies in Ukraine, are they satisfied with everything: the investment climate, the judicial system, and the courts? What keeps them from investing more in our country?
“I don’t think that one can speak here of restraint on the part of French companies in connection with their entry into the Ukrainian market. Two powerful French business delegations recently visited Kyiv. They are very interested in the Ukrainian market in view of its dynamic development. I must admit that there is not as much desire to increase sales in Ukraine as to come with straight investments here. This refers to agricultural production, in particular, to the production of raw materials for brewing and the production of seeds. French companies are already in Ukraine, where they are creating jobs and organizing real production.
“It is clear that there are some difficulties, particularly those of a legal nature. I mean the absence of any law on forms of state-private partnership that would include important legal conditions, for example, for carrying out the process of concessions in Ukraine. As an example I can cite Dnipropetrovsk, where a French company is interested and has a possibility to help the city modernize its water supply system. There is a real possibility to get money from the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development on very beneficial terms. But the existing mechanism of tender purchases in Ukraine is not satisfactory to the EBRD. Therefore, the issuing of funds has been delayed. As a result, the potential concessionaire cannot start working. But in general I want to say that there are no cautions or fears concerning the Ukrainian market. It seems to me that Ukraine should take care that the excessively high interest on the part of foreign businesses does not overheat the Ukrainian economy.”
French president’s visit to Ukraine was scheduled for April. What was the reason for its delay or cancellation?
“The possibility of making this visit in the spring, either in April or May, had been considered. The visit did not take place because of the serious duties that President Sarkozy undertook within the framework of preparations for France’s EU presidency. The French president’s visit to Ukraine will definitely take place, if only because of the great interest and importance that the head of the French state attaches to your country. For us it will be a pleasure to welcome the Ukrainian president in France on the occasion of the EU-Ukraine Summit in Evian.”
So, this means that the French president won’t have any possibility to visit Ukraine this year?
“That’s correct. We are at the beginning of France’s EU presidency. I don’t think that there will be any possibility for a visit during the presidency.”
