There are many countries, including Iran’s neighbors, who view Iran as an influential player in the Middle East. What is preventing Tehran from realizing this potential to regulate problems in the Middle East and securing stability in this region? Why does Iran, despite the pressure exerted by the international community, insist on continuing its nuclear program and the right to possess the whole cycle of nuclear fuel processing? These and other questions are raised in The Day ’s exclusive interview with Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Islamic Republic of Iran to Ukraine Sayed Musa KAZEMI.
WE HAVE ALWAYS SUPPORTED A DIALOGUE OF CIVILIZATIONS
“We want to play a serious role in all international questions and events and to influence them. So far we have been playing this role. Of course, I must say that we have had some difficulties along the way to reaching this goal. I can mention as an example our participation in restoring peace in Afghanistan and Iraq. Everyone is aware of the assistance we gave to the forces of the Alliance in 2001 and since then. We have made special efforts to restore peace in Iraq. We have also had an active position in the international arena in the struggle against international terrorism and the drug trade. As a result of the fight against the drug trade, there are more victims among our law-enforcement bodies than in other countries. Thus, we are sacrificing our people in order for illegal drugs not to enter the European countries. This is acknowledged by all international instances. One of the main goals of our revolution was man and humanity. The world gains its sense in people. And this is one of the aims of all of God’s envoys, from Adam to Jesus and Mohammed. We want to help to restore peace all over the world.”
Do you think that these are signs of a war among civilizations: the aggravation of the Middle East situation, which developed into the intifada (uprising) in 2000, the acts of terrorism in New York, and the war in Iraq, which began in 2003 and still continues?
“We by no means consider that these events can be regarded this way. Taking our philosophy as the point of departure, we have always supported a dialogue, not war, among civilizations. We are following our own path, taking into account divine logic. Therefore our goal is to unite people, not disunite them. Our logic is to have a dialogue among civilizations and cultures. It is materialists who want to disunite people and to profit by this. You will never encounter any religious theorists making proposals that contradict civilization. The initiator of the dialogue among civilizations was the former president of Iran Mohammad Khatami.”
Does this mean that the Western and Islamic civilizations will find a common language and share common values?
“Why not? We originate from common parents. We do not see any distinctions among races. And we do not believe that certain categories of humankind are better than others. Man is the common goal of all religions. Therefore, a religious government cares about the individual.”
ALL RELIGIONS FORBID SUICIDE
Mr. Ambassador, what is your personal attitude to suicide bombers, who blow themselves up in order to kill people for religious reasons in Israel and Iraq? How does this relate to Islam?
“It must be said that suicide is banned in all religions. Islam also does not approve of suicide. One should be aware of the situation.”
“In some countries that are suffering from the pressure of superpowers, people want to prove to the whole world by committing suicide that they are oppressed by powerful states. I must say that most of the Palestinians living in the State of Israel are resisting Israel’s wrong deeds against humanity. The aggression against Palestinian territory is a crime. Without a doubt, genocide exists there as well.”
Mr. Ambassador, since we are talking about genocide, there was the Holocaust, and Ukraine had the Holodomor. Can these phenomena be denied as some politicians do?
“As I have already said, we are against killing innocent people. And naturally, the killing of innocent people is condemned all over the world. These types of questions should be thoroughly considered by international organizations. One of the best ways to discuss this type of question is to initiate a dialogue among members of parliaments in all countries or parliamentary groups. Since MPs have close contacts with different categories of people, they may have a good understanding of these questions.”
What is the Iranians’ attitude to the Holodomor in Ukraine?
“I don’t think that the topic of the Holodomor has been discussed in Iran yet, because this question has never been considered or raised. In my opinion, in order for people to find out about the Holodomor it is necessary to inform people in other countries through parliamentary groups.”
THE ISSUE OF URANIUM ENRICHMENT HAS BECOME A SORT OF JOKE
Mr. Ambassador, you probably know that besides the Western countries, not to mention the US, many of Iran’s neighbors are worried about your country’s nuclear program. They are afraid that Iran may develop a nuclear bomb and impose its will on them afterwards. What should Iran do in order to eradicate this worry? Maybe enriched uranium should be taken from Russia or other countries?
“The issue of uranium enrichment has become a sort of joke. I think the US will run out of arguments concerning Iran’s nuclear program. I want to remind you that the report by the IAEA’s (International Atomic Energy Agency) Director-General Mohammad al-Baradei openly states that Iran has no military nuclear program. The IAEA asked our country two questions. The first one concerned the P1 and P2 centrifuges and the second one — plutonium. These two questions were openly and clearly resolved and reflected in al-Baradei’s report. Besides this report, a report by 16 US intelligence services was published, saying that Iran has not worked on a military nuclear program since 2003. In general, I want to underline that Iran does not intend to develop nuclear weapons. We treat the IAEA in a very loyal way and are abiding by the Nuclear Non- Proliferation Treaty. Within the framework of this agreemnt we have allowed IAEA inspectors to examine our atomic installations any time. Iran is among the most responsible states in the world. It is not generally clear on what grounds the UN Security Council twice approved a resolution against Iran. It is not known who will reimburse the losses the Iranian people have suffered. We categorically support the idea that the Middle East is free of nuclear weapons. In general, we support disarmament all over the world. On the grounds of our religious convictions we are against the murder of any person all over the world. Humanism is very important to our convictions. I don’t think that any of our neighbors are afraid of us.”
What about Saudi Arabia?
“Last week the king of Saudi Arabia greeted our president when he took part in the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf for the first time. We are all Muslim brothers. We have no problems with each other.”
IRANIANS ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO SATISFY THEIR OWN NEEDS
Still, you don’t deny the fact that Europe is worried about your nuclear program. The EU is asking your country to freeze the uranium enrichment program. The EU countries have twice supported sanctions against your country, and France is proposing a new package of sanctions. The main problem with uranium enrichment is that possessing this technology enables a country to create an atomic bomb. Is it worthwhile for Iran to insist on a full cycle of nuclear fuel production and confront the EU countries which, by the way, are offering their nuclear fuel and technologies that your country needs in order to make petroleum out of extracted oil and not buy it abroad, as it is done at the moment? On top of it, Europe is interested in buying Iranian oil.
“First and foremost, it should be admitted that humanity needs one thing. It is not just Iran that needs help from the EU or the European countries. They too need Iran. The prospects of the world and especially of this region depend on energy supply. Where the Europeans are concerned, we do not believe that they are expressing worry. Only one or two European countries are interested in this question. There are very good relations between our country and many European countries. Of course, we understand that the Europeans are also eager to be freed of the crisis that was created by the US. But we don’t want there to be any confrontation in the world. We are in favor of dialogue.
“Why do we insist on enriching uranium for our own nuclear power plant? Several years ago we reminded the entire international community that our oil industry needs reconstruction. If oil is sold for 8 or 10 dollars, there will be no possibility to reconstruct the oil industry and a great crisis will emerge in the world. Nobody listened to Iran’s appeal. And we witnessed an increase in the price of oil. We reminded many times that oil should not be used solely for fuel. Oil is very valuable, and what will mankind do in 20 years, when the oil reserves are depleted everywhere in the world except for the Middle East? That is why we have always repeated that we should not use up all the oil reserves at once. Atomic reactors are among the cheapest and cleanest ways of energy production. The EU has approved 41 billion euros for the development of this branch of industry. We have no reasons to get fuel for our nuclear power plant from abroad and become forever dependent on other countries. Iranians are intelligent enough to satisfy their needs and be independent of other countries. Knowledge and the technology of uranium enrichment are national — Iranian. According to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, we allow international inspectors to inspect our installations. And it should not be forgotten that Iran has not attacked other countries in the last 100 years. And those countries that are against our nuclear program have already used atomic bombs. In general, we support world-wide disarmament.”
Mr. Ambassador, then Iran is not against Ukraine’s creation of its own cycle of nuclear fuel production for its nuclear power plants?
“There is no problem here, but only within the framework of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and under IAEA supervision. Naturally, you must also obtain clean fuel. Any country that is a party to this agreement and under IAEA control can make a claim to possess the technology of nuclear fuel production. This also depends on Ukraine’s fulfillment of its international obligations. Of course, Ukraine also needs nuclear power plants, and at the moment nuclear power plants are already operating in your country.”
THE ROUTE THROUGH UKRAINE IS ONE OF THE MOST ECONOMICAL ONES, AND ONE OF THE SHORTEST
Mr. Ambassador, a rather strange situation has emerged: Iran has both gas and oil. Europe and Ukraine need them. Why don’t oil and gas “flow” into Ukraine or Europe from your country?
“We have held many negotiations on this topic with the Ukrainian side. But the negotiations stopped in the last two or three years. Of course, in this connection one has to take into account all the political changes that have happened in your country. Iran is among the largest exporters of oil and gas. Our gas deposits are the second largest in the world. And we have had negotiations with the Ukrainian side concerning the creation of a gas pipeline from Iran to Europe via Ukraine. The European countries need Iranian gas too in the long term. And the route via Ukraine is among the most economical and shortest ones to supply gas to Northern Europe. A gas pipeline from Iran to Europe via Turkey is being constructed. Several years ago we proposed holding pentalateral negotiations among Ukraine, Iran, Russia, Georgia, and Armenia. We are now ready to return to this proposal. And we hope that after the new government comes to power, Ukraine will consider this issue in a serious way. This gas pipeline will not just be a pipeline supplying Ukraine and Europe with gas; it can also become a peace gas pipeline in this region. We have already held negotiations and built a gas pipeline to Armenia. A gas pipeline to Pakistan and India is under construction as well. Therefore, nothing is preventing the Ukrainians from using the existing possibilities to build a pipeline to Ukraine.”
And what about oil supply? Iranian oil can reach Europe via the Odesa-Brody pipeline extended to Gdansk.
“We are freely selling our oil at the moment. And Ukraine can buy it as well. There is no problem here.”
Can this pipeline be filled with Iranian oil and by what means?
“Of course, it can. But this issue has to be worked on. We are sitting at the table and holding negotiations, but we have not moved ahead. We have no problems with selling oil. As I have already said, the Europeans need us more than we need them. Their demands have been increasing in the past few years. And we are the second largest oil producer in the Middle East. Iran’s geopolitical location should be kept in mind. We are located between the Persian Gulf and the Caspian Sea. This is the world’s most important point. Most countries understand that our country is important within this region.”
ADDITIONAL AGREEMENT: THE AN-140 AND PROSPECTS FOR THE AN-148
Mr. Ambassador, in a recent interview you hinted that if the Ukrainian side does not honor its obligations with regard to the production of the regional airplane, the AN-140, in Iran, the Iranian side will halt this cooperation. Is this question so acute?
“I did not say that. I spoke about the need for both sides to strengthen their cooperation within the framework of this project. When we signed this agreement 11 years ago, it provided for the production of 100 airplanes over a period of 10 years. Unfortunately, we have not managed to reach this aim because of economic problems in Ukraine. We recently concluded an additional agreement with HESA, the Antonov ANTK, and the Kharkiv Aviation Plant. Now I am very optimistic about this project’s implementation. If it is successfully realized, we will start negotiations with the Ukrainian side about building the An-148. This may open a new page in economic relations between our countries. Right now we are thoroughly considering the course of developing the production of the An-140.”
When will the moment come or how much time has been allotted for the Iranian side to become convinced that the An-140 project is being successfully implemented?
“We signed an agreement two months ago and reached agreements on a number of technical problems. Fortunately, we feel that the Ukrainians are working in a very active and operative way to resolve these problems. Taking all this into consideration, we have been instructed to hold negotiations on cooperation on the production of An-148 airplanes. We think that this plane is one of the best regional airplanes. Our studies have proved that the AN-140 is also a good airplane. We think that cooperation on these projects will benefit both sides.”
UKRAINE IS A GREAT COUNTRY WITH A LARGE POTENTIAL
Mr. Ambassador, what other prospective directions of bilateral cooperation between our countries can you see?
“We can develop our cooperation in the oil industry and road construction. We have great experience in this sphere and we can share it with the Ukrainian side. We can try to cooperate in many other spheres. Ukraine is a great country with a large potential. It is one of the leading countries in the sphere of scientific development. We can cooperate in most spheres of science, genetics, and medicine. Our country has had great economic growth in the Middle East as well.”
What, in your opinion, is hindering the realization of this huge potential for cooperation between our two countries?
“I think you should strengthen your contacts, visits, and delegation exchanges. I want to remind you of one incident. You remember when US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright visited Ukraine about 10 years ago and practically forced Ukraine to reject the agreement to build a nuclear power plant in Bushehr (Iran). The US promised the Ukrainian side that it would reimburse the losses your country would suffer from breaking this beneficial contract. I recently learned that the US has hardly given a cent to Ukraine. Such promises have to be forgotten. It is necessary to start engaging in cooperation in an active and serious way, because where Ukraine refuses cooperation, other countries come immediately with their own proposals. We are cooperating very closely with China and Russia. Therefore, one should keep in mind that the market is competition and it cannot be lost.”
Mr. Ambassador, you are speaking of the need to strengthen contacts. When should we expect a meeting between the heads of our states?
“The last time our president visited Ukraine was in 2003. Now it is your president’s turn to visit Iran. We are waiting for this visit, and we will be glad if Tymoshenko becomes prime minister and visits our country. We see no problems with increasing the number of contacts on such a high level. I have heard that Tymoshenko has a very positive attitude towards our relations. When he was prime minister, Yanukovych also had a positive attitude to developing relations with Iran too. We hope that by the end of this year our trade turnover will have reached 800 million dollars. This is a good number. We think that we can have a turnover of 20 billion dollars with the Russians, so our turnover with Ukraine can be 2 billion dollars. We have lost many chances and opportunities in our development. That is why they should be restored. I think that your Ministry of Fuel and Energy should work in a very active way and seek new possibilities to develop our cooperation.”
Has the invitation to visit Iran been sent to the Ukrainian president?
“Yes, we have already transmitted an invitation to him. As soon as he signals his desire, we will organize his visit. We know that Mr. Yushchenko also has a very good attitude to Iran.”
