France and Germany are the European Union’s key states. France’s vote is decisive in whether or not a certain candidate country will be admitted to the European community. In many cases, Paris’s stand differs from that of the United States, the world’s most influential state. What is France’s vision of the European Union’s future problems and borders? Will it have a place for Ukraine? What is the attitude of official Paris to the latest statements of the Ukrainian prime minister on slowing down the NATO integration process? What role can France play when it takes over the EU presidency in 2008? Will it help Ukraine to gain the prospect of EU membership? How is French business doing in Ukraine? These questions are answered in the following interview with Jean-Paul Veziant, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of France to Ukraine.
Was Viktor Yanukovych’s Brussels statement that Ukraine is not ready to join the NATO Membership Action Plan expected and desired by France? Do you think the current government of Ukraine is predictable?
“I find it rather difficult to answer this question directly. I am not in fact supposed to make judgements about the Ukrainian government’s actions or policies. I must underline and emphasize: there is no door shut to Ukraine. Before knocking on this door, one must, of course, prepare for this, and no one besides Ukraine can do anything to be received by those who are standing on the other side of the door. Ukraine is doing just that, and I would like to add that there is tremendous potential within the framework of the EU Neighborhood Policy and a large number of instruments to be used. “For now, I can just point out that in their statements Ukrainian officials themselves say that they want to take a realistic and pragmatic attitude to the European Union and NATO. If I understand correctly, the question is that Ukraine should first of all show that it is able to carry out the changes and reforms that are indispensable for developing and intensifying the dialogue with both the EU and NATO. Still trying to answer your question, I will confess that I have gained the impression that you wish to revise the methods and speed of this process rather than to change the course. It seems to me that the current format of intensified dialogue with NATO still leaves many opportunities. In addition, considerable work has already been done to reform the armed forces.
I would like to stress again in this connection that France is not hostile — neither from fundamental nor any opportunistic considerations — to Ukraine’s integration into Euro-Atlantic institutions, while some other countries have ostensibly always supported this aspiration. As I have already said on behalf of the French government, it is up to Ukraine to choose its own foreign policy priorities. Ukraine should voice its position today, with due account of its interests and the will of its citizens. On behalf of the government that he heads, Mr. Yanukovych chose to emphasize the necessity of a meaningful and more intensified dialogue between Ukraine and NATO rather than to ask about joining the Membership Action Plan. This is the current situation, and we really favor cooperation with Ukraine at a pace that it will choose by itself. Do I need to repeat our overall readiness to work with the cabinet formed on August 4 by the coalition that emerged in parliament as a result of the democratic elections? We would be working impartially the same way with any other coalition that would have emerged after the March elections.”
Are some analysts correct in saying that Ukraine’s path to the Euro-Atlantic institutions runs primarily through Paris and Berlin, and depends on the ability of the Ukrainian government to make deals with these two most influential EU countries?
“I would like to emphasize that in no way is my country or Germany an obstacle to Ukraine’s likely entry into NATO or the EU. Ukraine is a young state still in the making and in search of its national identity. Is there a consensus today in Ukraine about the necessity of joining NATO? If there is no consensus like this, then are France and Germany an obstacle to Ukraine’s integration? Is not the main problem the fact that this question is the subject of debate in society and among the political leaders of your country? Does not the need arise to exert efforts along the lines of public diplomacy, an informational campaign, and genuine debates around your country’s NATO membership? In my view, only Ukrainians themselves can hold these discussions. As for the European Union, the problem of consensus looks slightly different. Ukraine still has to carry out considerable work to reform and modernize, which would enable it to meet European standards in the sphere loosely called ‘rapprochement of legislation.’ In my opinion, these kinds of efforts, aimed at a concrete and substantial implementation of reforms are a precondition for any serious application for EU membership. Whether or not there are membership prospects or any signals to this effect, these efforts will make your country into an even more modern European state.”
What role can France play during its EU presidency to open the prospects of membership for Ukraine? What should Ukraine do to make the European Union open up the prospect of membership and eventually admit our country to the European community?
“As you know, relations between Ukraine and the EU are now unfolding as part of the Neighborhood Policy. The soon-to-expire Ukraine-EU Partnership and Cooperation Agreement should be analyzed so that conclusions can be made and further opportunities offered. The intensification of relations between Ukraine and the EU will depend not only on the French or German presidencies but also on what Ukraine will decide and be prepared to do to pursue its short-and medium-term policies. As you know, a possibility is being studied to establish an EU-Ukraine free trade area. This can only happen, however, if Ukraine becomes a WTO member by that time. The establishment of closer ties between the European Union and Ukraine therefore depends on the speed at which your country will go its own segment of the way. The comprehensive fulfillment of the Action Plan is already a challenging task.
Let me underline that France is specifically contributing to your country’s reform and modernization effort. Three very high-level French experts have been working since December 2005 at the Ministry of Agrarian Policies and the Main Directorate of the Civil Service. Their task is to issue expert findings and promote the reforms that you are trying to carry out in order to approach European standards. I think France is clearly showing interest in modernizing your state through this kind of bilateral cooperation that at the same time is supposed to bring Ukrainian realities closer to European ones.”
Do you think the initiative of Nicolas Sarkozy, one of the likely candidates for the French presidency, to draw up and approve an EU “mini-treaty” will overcome the constitutional crisis that emerged as a result of the French and Dutch “no” vote in last year’s referendum?
“As I have already said, Ukraine will determine the natural development of its relations with the European Union, the main factor being the speed, nature, and depth of the reforms carried out. What will help you increase your chances is effective implementation of reforms as well as political, economic, and legislative rapprochement with the EU. As you know, EU membership calls for the fulfillment of very clear-cut conditions in the economic, public administration, and human rights aspects — what is known as the Copenhagen Criteria. The example of the Central European countries that recently joined the EU is illustrative: they carried out reforms, sometimes radical and painful, and got their institutions and economy ready for the ‘enlargement shock.’ No one can skip this stage, it is indispensable.”
What is Paris’s vision of the European Union’s future and its eastern borders? Will there be a place for Ukraine and Turkey?
“To break the current EU institutional deadlock, one should consider all the options as long as they are aimed at improving the Union’s performance. Some people think that it would be a good idea to leave intact some very interesting provisions of the rejected Constitutional Treaty in order to institutionally defuse the situation. But this will again raise the question of how to ratify this text. The French will not understand why the issue on which they voted in a national referendum should be tackled for a second time by parliament. For this reason, any proposal or initiative will require a large degree of explanation and conscious support on the part of not only politicians but ordinary people. We hope that the presidency of Germany and then France will allow a positive dynamic to be restored.”
What role do you think Ukraine can play in ensuring European security, especially in the field of energy?
“If maps are anything to go by, Europe’s borders are more or less well known. General de Gaulle once spoke of a Europe ‘from the Atlantic to the Urals,’ and this naturally means that Ukraine is in Europe, and no one denies this. To give you a more detailed answer and link it with the previous question about ties with the EU, I will say that we have more political criteria. ‘Europeanness’ equally comprises such values and notions as democracy, rule-of-law state, liberty, and freedoms. It is on the basis of this idea of Europe that heads of states and governments decided, on the European Commission’s advice, to start membership negotiations with Turkey, a country 90 percent of whose territory lies outside Europe.
However, admitting a country like Turkey, which will have a population of more than 90 million in a few years, or a country like Ukraine, with a population of 47 million, will have certain consequences. European institutions will have to adapt to the new realities, and it is common knowledge that today they are working at the peak of their capacity with 25 members. The May 2004 enlargement raised a lot of questions in Europe, which we must answer before contemplating the next steps in this direction. Europe should also think ahead about its goals and functions — and it is now doing this. It is far from easy, when there are 25 members.”
How does French business feel in Ukraine? Did the new government’s ascent to power open new prospects for French investors?
“Trade exchanges between our countries have been developing for many years, but they still remain very modest as far as our economic potentials are concerned. As Ukraine’s eighth-largest trade partner, France exported 594 million euros’ worth of products to your country in 2005, first of all, semi-finished goods (chemicals, plastic items, basic textiles, etc.). Second in the structure of our exports to Ukraine is equipment intended for the modernization of Ukrainian industry, as well as consumer goods mostly represented by pharmaceutical items, perfumes, and cosmetics. Then come automobiles (three French manufacturers — Renault, Peugeot, and Citroen — are present on the Ukrainian market) and agricultural products.
On its part, Ukraine has exported 246 million euros’ worth of goods to France, including clothing, chemical and metallurgical products, and fuel. Trade turnover noticeably increased in the first eight months of 2006: French exports rose by 37 percent (mostly commercial equipment), while Ukrainian exports grew by 31.5 percent (in particular, agricultural products registered a 163-percent increase). This revitalization of trade exchanges has been observed since 2005, and I must say that the government intends to assign an important place to economic questions, which is a good sign for the future.”
Why are French high-tech companies still showing lukewarm interest in cooperating with Ukrainian aerospace and defense enterprises?
“I must admit that Ukraine does not project the image of a hi-tech country in France, and French industrialists focus their attention on other directions before turning to Ukrainian partners. Of course, this is wrong, and serious work must still be done to promote the quality of Ukrainian goods in this sector. On the other hand, it is sometimes difficult to cooperate with companies that are part of the military-industrial complex because of their inherent culture of secrecy and lack of preparedness for dealing with the civilian sphere, especially because of the absence of patents that could protect inventions.
At the same time, I would like to note that the French-German consortium EADS has made a very thorough study of the possibility of cooperating with Ukraine in various sectors of its specialization and has mapped out the top-priority directions of joint work. But the consortium still has not managed to enlist the support of certain Ukrainian officials, which is putting the breaks on intensifying cooperation in this field. The new government should give an impetus to this scheme and launch new forms of work because this sector may become a field of true cooperation.”
Is President Chirac going to visit Ukraine and, if so, when?
“As you know, the president of the French Republic was not able to visit Ukraine as planned in October 2005 owing to circumstances beyond his control. But we are certain that no later than next spring the French president’s staff will be able to find a slot in Mr. Chirac’s very tight schedule, which will also suit your president.”
