Ukraine and Spain were victims of dictatorships for a long time, Stalin’s and Franco’s respectively. The Kingdom of Spain healed rather quickly from the damage Franco’s dictatorship caused to its people, and the country has since joined NATO and the EU. Ukraine only seeks to join the European structures. How did Spain rid itself of its despot’s legacy? What is Spain’s attitude to the prospects of Ukraine’s EU membership? What do they expect from cooperation with our state? Diego Lopez GARRIDO, Secretary of State for the European Union at the Spanish Foreign Ministry, answers these questions in his exclusive interview to The Day.
Could you share your opinion about the processes which have been taking place in Europe in recent years: Schroederism, Berlusconism... How is this seen from Spain? Schroeder accepted a post at a Russian company. Berlusconi is using the media to burnish his image, and is a friend of Putin — he uses this connection in his own interest, not the interest of the EU.
“In our country there are no phenomena similar to these, and I have no opinion about these matters.”
But they definitely contradict the values the EU propagates…
“I think that we are living in difficult times. Europe’s politicians, or some sector of the European public opinion, are tempted to think of national interest first and the general European interest second. I think this is a mistake because we are in Europe, in one boat, and the principle of Europe is that if you perform well it’s also good for your neighbor, and not the contrary. And Spain, which is a very pro-European country, tries to defend European interests, and along these lines we agree with those European institutions in what concerns the recent conflict between Italy and France regarding migration, the fact that we have to communicate with our partners and the commission, and all the obstacles blocking the adoption of unilateral measures to tackle the problem. For that reason we support the commission. In this concrete example the commission is going to deliver a statement to direct this trend in Europe. This is our vision, our view of these questions. I repeat, in difficult times, there may be parties of nationalist, populist, or even xenophobic orientation. We have to fight this phenomenon for the sake of a constructive European project. For example, the Euro has to be preserved because it’s in the interest of all European countries.”
Over the past two or three centuries the European order defined the world order, but now the situation is changing. What are the reasons for this? Can Europe define the new world order?
“I think that the world is a globalized territory, and the crisis was caused by the globalization of financial markets without any regulation; by deregulated markets that led to this enormous and devastating crisis, mainly in the western countries; because of the very extensive reach of finance. And thus we have learned from that experience that we have to act globally. There is a saying: think locally, act globally. And Europe should lead this global movement in a kind of world government on the international stage, mainly the G20 and the IMF. Now, in the middle of the financial turmoil, we have to be cautious and prudent, and we have to adopt a European line and to defend this line in front of international organizations, as I mentioned. This is how we should proceed in the future. In this regard Europe should maintain a strong neighborhood policy with two main geographical orientations: the Eastern Partnership (Ukraine, Belarus...), and Mediterranean [direction], which is of great interest not just for Europe but for the entire world. We have to encourage new democratic movements in Africa.”
Our countries have some similar features because we both lived under dictatorships: our country lived under Stalin’s dictatorship and your country under Franco’s dictatorship. How did your country succeed in healing the wounds left by this regime?
“For us the European perspective was very important. Europe was for many Spaniards a land of freedom, of prosperity, of wealthy states. This is why the Spanish people are so European. And we realized that a peaceful transition to democracy needed broad political dialog among the political forces interested in democracy, and that democracy was the only path to the European stage, to the European project. Then, from the beginning, the Spanish constitution was linked to the European project. I think this was one of the best choices in our history. And I think that Europe is unifying peacefully on a continent that was once very aggressive. That is why the European Union is at the same time an economic tool, and an instrument for peace and stability. I think it’s also important in the relations between Ukraine and the European Union, and Ukraine and European countries such as Spain.”
But how was this transition made? Was the previous regime condemned?
“We had many limitations because of the dictatorship, because of the authoritarian image and reality of Franco’s regime. At the same time, I think we were in touch with European trends. We had many tourists coming from abroad, and we experienced an initial modernization, which was very useful in bringing us closer to democracy. Also, I think it’s necessary to be firm and clear in regards to the European Union and its relations with other countries. Our values are the values of democracy and freedom, human rights, and the rule of law, and we have to support democracy in other countries. For example, in Northern Africa we have approved a strategy to support democratic reforms. For example, to begin with Tunisia and Egypt, we should support the democratic process not just politically, but also economically. For us the best thing is to have a democratic neighborhood, and for that reason democratic political dialog is so important within the framework of the neighborhood policy of Europe. Yesterday we approved a new document, a statement on the neighborhood policy, and one of the elements emphasized is the use of political dialog to consolidate the democracies around us.”
Were all the symbols of Franco removed from your country? There is no Franco monument in your country, right?
“Yes, the last legislature approved a law called the ‘Memory Law’ in order to finish destroying the symbols of that regime, that dictatorship. It has been implemented in Spain. I think it was a good decision, which expresses our commitment to democracy and human rights, values that are a part of the Spanish society and of all political forces in Spain, from left or right. In Spain we have no strong extreme-right party. This is a positive difference with other countries in Europe. We’re really concerned with the growth of the far right in some European countries, which represents the antithesis of European values.”
But ETA is far right, isn’t it?
“ETA (Euskadi Ta Askatasuna, an armed Basque nationalist and separatist organization. – Ed.) is a terrorist group, and it is coming to its end. In Spain we have achieved a huge success in terms of bringing down this terrorist group, which is opposed to democracy. Sometimes some mass media describe ETA as a separatist group, it’s not true, ETA is just a terrorist group. Against democracy from the beginning of democracy. But the political consensus in Spain, the international cooperation and the effectiveness of our security forces and police, have all led to successful action that have utterly destroyed this terrorist group. We are at the end of the sinister history of ETA. And it’s a good thing to be at this stage in a democracy.”
Maybe your country is at the beginning of a new peaceful revolution, what with those protests on the main square of Madrid — those young people who want changes and who do not trust the establishment. There are similarities with Ukraine in 2004, where people also rose up against the authorities…
“I think that each country has its own experience. The protest movement in some parts of Spain and abroad is a peaceful and respectful movement, and it’s the expression of freedom in our country. It has nothing to do with democracy because it’s not a demand for democracy — they demand jobs and balance between the classes within society. But it has nothing to do with demands for democracy, because Spain is a consolidated democracy: we respect human rights, we have judicial guarantees. And, in fact, thousands of people are saying what they want without any repression. But we should take note of the protestors, the people’s feelings, it is a politician’s duty. But we are proud of our vibrant society, peacefully expressing its feelings, it’s not a negative phenomenon.”
What was your purpose in visiting Ukraine? What does your country expect from the visit of Viktor Yanukovych?
“I think that Ukraine is a big country, the biggest country in the Eastern Partnership. We’re really interested in good relations with Ukraine, both on a bilateral level and within the EU. Ukraine has to develop its potential, it’s a powerful society. And we think that we have an opportunity to strengthen our relations; we are really interested in investing in Ukraine, we’re encouraging our people to come here and see the economic landscape, and to invest. Yesterday I was telling the vice prime minister about the legal obstacles our companies found here, in order to overcome this situation and to facilitate investments in Ukraine. The European Union, I think, also provides a good opportunity, and during the Polish presidency we expect that the association agreement and the trade agreement will be approved before the end of the year. It’s a good opportunity, we have to profit from this situation, to keep a special relationship between the European Union and Ukraine. We have good feelings about relations with such a big, such a relevant country in Europe. Ukraine is a European country.”
So your country supports the prospect of Ukraine’s EU membership?
“I think Ukraine’s membership is not on the table right now. We think that we should be open to all possibilities and concentrate on the steps to be developed. And now the first step is to consolidate our political and economic relations within the Eastern Partnership, and to approve, if possible, a strong association agreement and trade agreement. And Ukraine is at the head of this direction, among the different countries composing the Eastern Partnership. That is the step that should be carried out in regards to Ukraine.”
In Ukraine Spain is usually associated with great painters like Velasquez, Picasso, Goya... with Cervantes and flamenco. What is Ukraine associated with in Spain?
“Ukraine is a big country, we have a peaceful image of Ukraine — a peaceful society with many possibilities for the future, with a strong agricultural sector. We would like to have close relations with Ukraine. In Spain there is a good image of Ukraine because of some people coming to Spain to work. We have a positive image of the performance of Ukrainians, and good individual, personal relationships with Ukrainians. No contradictions, no problems, people feel good with this relationship. We have a very good image and feeling about Ukraine, and we have to deepen this good relationship in the future.”
