During his meeting with Ukrainian journalists Polish Ambassador to Ukraine Jacek Kluczkowski spoke fluent Ukrainian and answered questions mostly about Ukrainian-Polish relations, which have reached such a level that it would be difficult to improve on them. He also noted that current Ukrainian investments in Poland are even greater than Polish investments in Ukraine. Ambassador Kluczkowski kindly agreed to give an exclusive interview to The Day
We would like to make use of Poland’s experience. It is common knowledge that your country’s relations with Russia are far from optimal. In spite of this, we never hear about any yearly battles concerning either gas and oil prices or Russian gas transit through your country. How do you manage to do this?
“We have market gas and oil prices, which are set in all the other EU countries. The rise in the gas price is linked to the increase of the transit tariff; they are inseparable.”
Poland has proved to be a strong supporter of the Ukrainian Odesa-Brody-Plock pipeline, which, according to the agreement, can be extended to the Baltic countries. When can this pipeline be put in operation?
“Poland has a great interest in this project. But we have not received all the guarantees concerning oil supply from the Caucasus and the Middle East. One should also study future demand, the number of consumers, and which countries are going to purchase the oil. We are now at the stage where we have received guarantees concerning Azerbaijani oil, and this is helping us launch more concrete actions. Together with our partners we are now working on defining the oil supply route via the territory of Poland to the Druzhba pipeline. After the Vilnius Summit, which our countries’ presidents attended, it was resolved to approve the final decision concerning the routes and terms of construction by spring 2008. I think that if the work starts by 2009, the construction of the Polish part of the pipeline will last not longer than six months. So, the project will be able to come into operation by the beginning of 2012, of course, if there is oil for it. And I am sure that there will be a demand for it in Europe.”
I would also like to know whether gas prices for industries and consumers cost the same in Poland and other EU countries. If not, where is it higher and why?
“In principle, gas prices are identical for each end consumer. But there are state subsidies. Industry cannot be subsidized in our country because Poland is a member of the EU, and it does not allow this sort of assistance. The population does not receive any subsidies either, although there is a possibility of social assistance. Only local authorities receive it for the needs of public utility consumers.”
For whom do they decrease gas prices: for the population or budget-supported institutions?
“They do this solely for such budget-supported institutions as schools, hospitals, etc. But actually we do not consider this to be rational because the commodity price should be equal for everyone. The consumer should be solvent. This is a stimulus for conserving gas and energy.”
Does Europe have any gas privileges for the population, like those that the Ukrainian government has issued? Our population now receives domestic gas at a price that is significantly lower than the imported gas price.
“If I am not mistaken, there is no such difference in gas prices anywhere in Europe. The gas price should be equal for everyone because we are working in market conditions. Another issue is an active social policy, which is meant to give assistance to different categories of the population. I repeat: prices should not differ under market conditions; they should be equal for all the consumers. But of course, one needs time to reach this goal.”
And what would you recommend to resolve this problem in Ukraine? Will your country benefit or lose if it increases the gas price for the population?
“I will tell you another thing. Compare Poland and Ukraine. You are consuming five times more gas than we are. You consumer more coal and oil as well. Ukraine also has nuclear energy, which we do not. To summarize, Poland’s GDP is three times higher. Is it not time to consider ways of reducing the energy consumption of your economy? I think that it is hardly possible to implement an efficient program of saving energy carriers — gas, oil, coal, and electric energy — without having real market prices in your country. In my opinion, this question is the main one, not the question of social benefits. You must radically reduce the consumption of energy carriers. The energy consumption of Ukrainian industry, the housing sector, and the economy as a whole cannot even be compared with the expenditure of these resources in Poland or any other European country. This is your number-one task. But it is a difficult one to carry out if the price is unrealistic and if it does not encourage conservation.”
