The Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine has been going on for over a year. And yet, it seems that Europeans still do not understand or do not want to understand the true causes behind the Russian-inspired conflict in the Donbas. The latest proof of this was the statement by Minister of Foreign Affairs of Italy Paolo Gentiloni to the effect that Ukraine should grant autonomy to the Donbas. While interviewed by La Stampa on the eve of his visit to Kyiv, he stressed, in particular, that such a grant was one of the necessary economic and constitutional reforms that the Ukrainian government had to undertake. In fact, as we know, these reforms involve transfer of more powers to the regions and completely exclude any kind of federalization of Ukraine, which Russia insists on as it tries to make the overall direction of our nation dependent on the strife-torn region’s stance.
The minister said also that Italy supported Ukraine and complied with the sanctions against Russia, despite paying a “high price” for them. Italy’s Ambassador to Ukraine Fabrizio Romano told The Day earlier about his country’s economic losses, suffered as a result of the EU’s restrictive measures against Russia.
However, the question arises: why is the Italian minister coming close to voicing the Russian aggressor’s demands as he speaks for the autonomy of the Donbas?
Experts say that Russia enjoys a very strong presence in Italy. Officials at the Ukrainian embassy in Rome told The Day that the country had four or five Russian-owned TV channels broadcasting in Italian. In addition, there are very strong economic ties between the two countries, particularly in the gas sector. Italian energy company ENI has worked in the USSR, and then Russia, since 1955. The first car factory in Tolyatti was built by Italians as well. Thus, as a Ukrainian diplomat said on condition of anonymity, Italy’s economic interests in Russia, being incomparably greater than opportunities for cooperation between Ukraine and Italy, were actually determining the Italian government pro-Russian stance. “Italians are very cynical,” our source remarked.
The Day turned to Giampiero Gramaglia, an analyst at the Istituto Affari Internazionali, for a comment on the ministerial statement and his take on how Italians see the situation in eastern Ukraine, and in particular, whether they understand who is behind this conflict.
“The idea of granting autonomy to the eastern region of Ukraine is supported by Italians who know the situation in Ukraine. They stress that autonomy would be enough to end the tense standoff in the Donbas and restore the normal situation throughout the country.”
Do Italians understand, then, that the conflict has been inspired by Russia, for Ukraine’s authorities do not have and never had any plans for Ukrainization of the region, but do offer empowering the Donbas and other regions within the constitutional reform’s framework?
“First, this view is not unanimously accepted in Italy. Many Italians are poorly informed about what is happening in eastern Ukraine. Secondly, Italian political leaders are not interested in what happened and is happening in Ukraine. Thus, the view that the responsibility lies squarely with Russia and pro-Russian separatists is not fully supported in Italy. We see many Italians blaming the Ukrainian government for the conflict as well.”
Does this mean that the Ukrainian embassy does not work hard enough to inform the Italian public about the true state of affairs in Ukraine?
“The Ukrainian embassy in Rome works very well, it is present in the media, contacts Italian politicians and public opinion makers. In other words, it is very active. In my opinion, Ukrainian diplomats are doing good work. However, you need to understand that any statements coming from the Ukrainian and Russian embassies sound like propaganda. People do not see them as sources of absolutely reliable information and regard them with some suspicion. I think this is unavoidable. The government of Ukraine accuses Russia of being involved in the Donbas conflict, but does not cite independent authoritative sources of information that can be called unbiased. Meanwhile, the international presence in eastern Ukraine is more reliable in terms of information it provides than sources in Kyiv and Moscow.”
The diplomatic adviser to the President of Italy is a former ambassador to Russia; the ministry of defense’s diplomatic adviser served in Moscow for eight years; head of the bureau which is charged, in particular, with Ukrainian affairs, also served in Russia. None of them served in Ukraine. Could this be the reason behind the higher echelons of the Italian government’s failure to fully understand what is happening in Ukraine, which prompts such statements in favor of the Donbas autonomy?
“You are better informed than I am. In fact, there is a feeling that as the crisis began more than a year ago, the Italian stance, frankly, was more pro-Russian than the common stance of the EU. However, I have been feeling lately that Italy has somewhat revised its pro-Russian stance and taken a common European one. What you say was correct a few months ago, but Italian politicians have changed their views by now. Even Federica Mogherini, who holds the office of the chief of European diplomacy, cannot be accused of having a pro-Russian stance, in my opinion.”
And now to the most important question: will Italy insist on lifting the EU sanctions against Russia, especially considering the fact that a statement to this effect was made before the Ukraine-EU Summit by a mid-level government official?
“The anti-Russian sanctions are not critical for the Italian economy. As you know, the Russian counter-sanctions have been painful for Italian agricultural and machine-building exports to Russia. Despite the fact that sanctions against Russia have a negative impact, I do not think that Italy will insist on their lifting without getting the EU consensus on the matter. We cannot do anything outside the framework of the European community. I am absolutely convinced that Italy will not lift the sanctions, unless the EU makes such a decision. As far as I know, the EU will not lift its sanctions until the Minsk Accords are fully implemented.”
COMMENTARY
Yevhen PERELYHIN, the Ambassador of Ukraine to Italy, Rome:
“I would like to note that in this interview with the Italian minister, when they asked him what he would discuss with the president of Ukraine, he said first of all: ‘I will tell him that Italy supports Ukraine unconditionally.’ Somehow, everyone tries to omit this passage. He went on: ‘Secondly, I will tell President Petro Poroshenko that his government should undertake the necessary, if painful, economic and constitutional reforms, including autonomy for the Donbas.’
“Most importantly, no Italian official is now talking about federalization. We have succeeded in conveying our firm stance in favor of the unitary structure of the state to them. The issue of federalization has been dropped for good, but Italians want to know how this unitary structure will accommodate implementation of the Paragraph 11 of the Minsk Accords, and we told them that we could implement it, but only after Russia makes good on its commitments.”
By the way, how do you explain the fact that the Italian public opinion is divided in its understanding of who is to blame for the situation that has developed in eastern Ukraine?
“I will explain it this way. The Italian society is heterogeneous, and so are the nation’s media. Moreover, many materials published in the Italian media come from their own correspondents in Moscow. Many materials display this perspective. Some Italians are set to avoid any confrontation with Russia. They see Russia as a centuries-old economic and cultural partner. Of course, people who were brought up and have spent their lives knowing Russia and thinking about it as a strategic partner, such people do not want to accept the painful truth that today’s Russia is an aggressor. And this is why the visit of the Italian minister of foreign affairs, preceded by the visit of the prime minister a month ago, and to be followed by the visit of the secretary of state, as well as other political contacts between our countries, are important as we work to explain to the Italian political establishment what is happening, who has provoked it, and who is engaging in acts of aggression in Europe in the 21st century. Therefore, these contacts are now more important than ever before.
“It is easier, of course, to talk with those who trust and believe you, who are our partners, but we need to talk with those who have a different opinion as well, in order to convince them. This is exactly what we did during Prime Minister Matteo Renzi’s visit and will do during this visit, as well as during future visits. This is called holding high- and top-level political dialog.”
What is Ukraine doing to get direct access to the Italian audience, as Russia has done, going as far as to establish Italian-language TV channels?
“Indeed, Russia has established a number of local channels over the past two years, which it uses to convey its viewpoint. Of course, we have a lot of work to do in this field. There is an understanding already that what Russia does in the media space of Italy, or Europe as a whole, amounts to propaganda. However, there are no obvious tools or mechanisms to resist this propaganda at the moment. Some people say: ‘Let us create a TV channel or some other media.’ Conferences on hybrid war and analysis of media response to this situation are now held daily, including one held in Italy in early May.”
Is the Italian elite’s opinion on what is happening in eastern Ukraine and Russia’s role in it really changing?
“It definitely is. You may see it from the statement by the prime minister of Italy, who said very clearly in Milan on May 3 that Russia had violated all international rules and had to respect Ukraine, starting with its territorial integrity. The message is that the Italian leadership understands who started the aggression and that it was Russia that violated the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
“As for the mid-level official’s statement on the need to lift sanctions, it has received no support, and furthermore, it has already been disavowed. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ leadership has officially confirmed that the sanctions are here to stay and the stance of Italy on the matter is clear and 100 percent European. The sanctions will be there until the Minsk Accords are completely implemented. This is the official stance of the government.
“Furthermore, it added that one should not equate the official position of the government with the statement by a mid-level official at the Ministry of Economy, which was quoted by a lesser-known website, and distorted as well.”
