Max Planck, a German theoretical physicist and the author of the theory of black-body radiation, was also a capable musician, playing piano and organ. Physicist Yevhen Hrynko, who graduated from the graduate school at the Max Planck Institute in Gottingen, is fond of electronic music, and I even met him when he acted as a DJ. And then it turned out that he was a research fellow at the department of theoretical electrical engineering at the University of Paderborn in the German city of the same name, and conducted research into nanooptics and astrophysics.
In the early 2000s, Hrynko went to Germany, where he works now. But he still maintains ties with his Ukrainian colleagues and cares strongly about the state of Ukrainian science. I discussed with the physicist the globalization of science and continuity in it, which discoveries could be expected this year, and we talked about book shelves as well.
“WE HELP ASTRONOMERS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE SEEING”
Your research involved a variety of topics last year. Looking at your research papers, I saw that they covered comets, clouds, and photonic nanostructures. Did all these studies have something in common? What is the main objective of your research quest?
“With all these tasks, we use the same theory. It deals with the description of the interaction of light with matter. It can be any objects: metals, dielectrics of various shapes, etc.
“Perhaps it sounds too simple, but in practice many tasks arise because of the large variety of objects that are studied remotely, for example, using optical or radio sensing. These are, in particular, celestial objects, and specifically, the objects of the Solar system which we cannot reach. Of course, it would be best to touch what is there with one’s fingers, but this is often impossible. And all that remains for us is to observe the sunshine reflected from the surfaces of comets and space dust, light scattered with particles of cometary dust, and so on. The analysis of the scattering of this reflected light allows us to draw conclusions about the properties of matter, the physics and chemistry of the material.
“We help astronomers who observe these objects to understand what they are seeing. It is quite difficult to observe celestial bodies and at the same time make such a complex analysis. This requires the development of theory, reliable numerical models. Here we are dealing with the theoretical part.
“At the heart of this approach, there are well-known Maxwell equations that describe the propagation of electromagnetic radiation in a homogeneous medium. They are quite simple, but the task quickly becomes complicated if we consider the interaction of light with real-world objects. For example, planetary atmospheres or surfaces are heterogeneous, with a random structure and a large range of geometric scales compared with the wavelength of light. For such cases, it is almost impossible to write an analytic theory, that is, to modify the Maxwell equations to suit them. Therefore, we use numerical simulation and, in particular, parallel computing. The same applies to nanooptics, where there is a need to describe a substance at the microscopic level, that is, the level of atomic lattice and electrons, and to use a combination of such models with the Maxwell equations. For metals and semiconductors, this is a non-trivial task, and numerical simulation is helpful there again.”
It comes to mind that it is now very difficult to study something on one’s own. A problem can exist at an intersection of many disciplines, and it is impossible to master them all at an adequate level.
“This is a problem. Observational astronomers sometimes do not know physics. Likewise, we do not know everything. But we try to do something in different fields: both in astronomy and in nanooptics. One cannot know everything, and if one takes up a new topic, one needs to read through a mountain of literature, but it is not always of the right quality. It is necessary to gradually become an expert in the field to somehow filter through this flow of information. The results of published research are not always reliable. But this is normal.
“In general, my work is of a very interdisciplinary kind. For example, one of the most famous and most popular computational methods we use, namely the discrete-dipole approximation method, was developed in the 1960s to 1980s by two astrophysicists, who had a problem with the description of the passing of stellar light through the clouds of interstellar dust. This light is absorbed, so they had to calculate by how much. And these astrophysicists went on to develop a method of calculation, which is used today in very disparate fields: in biology, medicine, in climate research. All these fields face similar challenges. For example, in biology, they need it for remote optical studies of cells, say, blood cells.
“One of the scientific conferences I regularly travel to is an example of interdisciplinary research. Astronomers, biologists, climatologists, industry representatives gather there, and they all understand each other. They have similar problems, they use the same theories, and even their families befriend each other.”
“EVEN TODAY, ONE CAN TAKE A SHEET OF PAPER, A PEN AND MAKE A SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH”
In general, in the 21st century, technologies are developing at an insane rate. How does it affect the acquisition of new knowledge?
“Science develops just as fast as technologies do. New technologies enter science, and new tools and new research methods are created. New and very interesting results of these studies appear just as fast.
“However, even today, one can take a sheet of paper, a pen and make a scientific breakthrough in a particular field, if one’s mind is up to it. Or one can be an ordinary person, get access to an experimental research machine which no one else has, and make a scientific breakthrough as well.”
Today, many scientists direct their efforts towards fundamental science. Sometimes, such research seems to be too distant from real life and incomprehensible for the public. How to explain the value of fundamental science?
“There will always be a problem associated with understanding the importance of fundamental research. Very few people think a few steps in advance, so it is difficult to understand the importance of such work. One can explain the whole chain of research – from the beginning to the final result, which can bring practical benefits. After all, it is through fundamental research that new knowledge is acquired, which then finds application in applied spheres, in the development of technologies that work for the public.
“Educational work is important. The Americans, for example, are very good at it. They are taught to present themselves and what they do starting in childhood. Public institutions and universities engage in well-developed youth outreach work in this regard. NASA has a large division for this, a lot of people are involved in it and they work in various ways, it is like a commercial enterprise. Meanwhile, the Max Planck Solar System Research Institute, where I received a Ph.D. degree (equivalent to a Candidate of Sciences degree in Ukraine), has one person who works on press releases and so on. And this is what is missing in Ukraine. Every research institute should have a dedicated public relations worker.”
“UKRAINE DOES NOT HAVE A CONCEPT OF ACQUIRING NEW KNOWLEDGE”
How often do you encounter Ukrainian scientists in your field? What is the “face” of Ukrainian science abroad?
“I maintain contact with the Institute of Astronomy Research of Kharkiv National University, where I studied, and generally monitor what is happening in Ukraine and try to help science there.
“Abroad, despite the dire situation in Ukrainian science, Ukraine is well-represented. Everything depends very much on the field in question, because something is historically well-developed, while something else is not, there are certain major scientific schools, professors who participate in international conferences and projects, so they are known in the wider world.”
Is there a risk of a “generation gap” appearing in Ukrainian science? After all, young people do not go there because of low incomes prevalent in that field, and strong scholars will eventually retire, and if the situation does not change, there will be no one to teach a new generation.
“Indeed, world-level schools and research groups are actually a trademark of Ukraine. This is something that we can proudly show others. Andrii Shevchenko no longer plays soccer, and the Klitschko brothers have ended their sports careers, while some of our scholars and academics represent Ukraine abroad as well as ever. These people came to be as a result of the Soviet scientific system being a major industry. They are still working in that manner, at that pace, because it was like that once and there is still something left. They simply cannot leave it. But these people are already in their 60s. We had an opportunity to attract young people in the 1990s, in the early 2000s. Now it is much more complicated: some of young people have left science, new people are not coming, and science groups are gradually dying. Leaders of these groups are becoming older, and it is fairly easy to calculate that we have a maximum of 10 years left to change something. Then these people will retire, and it will be the end of it all.
“In its current condition, Ukraine as a state does not have a concept, goals, ambitions for acquiring new knowledge and technologies. And where there is no need, there are no decisions and actions either. So, there is no science. There are some isolated remnants of the Soviet era.”
“THE WAY UKRAINIANS ARE OFFERS GROUNDS FOR OPTIMISM”
So, in order to change the situation for the better, should we start with creating a concept?
“Yes. We need to talk to people who make decisions. This is the level of the Presidential Administration. And better yet, we need to talk to oligarchs who run the parliament and influence the Presidential Administration. But they are simple uneducated people. I do not know how to talk to them. There is no easy solution. Perhaps something can change the historical process when instead of these people, new ones will come who will have the money and become more educated, who will be interested in something greater than soccer.”
Do you see the preconditions for a generation of such people taking shape?
“Historical process is unpredictable. In different countries, everything happens differently. There are countries that simply do not care about science. There are those where ambitions arise in waves, they invest in education and science and have periods of fast development. One can expect anything from Ukraine, so I am not going to predict how it will end.
“The way the Ukrainians are offers grounds for optimism, but anything can happen. In every generation, there is a fairly small percentage of people who are capable of something outstanding. At the same time, there is acertain provinciality in Ukraine, many people do not feel like active subjects, they think: ‘America is with us, they will help us, they will give us Javelin antitank missile launchers, and everything will be well.’ Meanwhile, the Americans have no one to look up to except themselves. And when they have problems, they have nothing else to do but to look for a solution on their own. The Germans are the same. So, the Ukrainians need to change their way of thinking.”
“I DO NOT DISCUSS SCIENCE WITH DJS”
What pushed you to move to Germany?
“I have been working in Germany for over a decade. I moved due to material reasons as well. There were two options: to stay in Ukraine and engage in something else, because there was no way to earn real money in science, or to practice science, but do it where people got paid for it. Almost all my contemporaries at the departments of astronomy and theoretical physics have gone abroad. I also chose this option because I could not imagine myself in another field.
“Initially, I planned to go to the US, but after graduating from the university I was very enthusiastic about working for the Kharkiv Observatory and so did not prepare for entrance exams at an American university well enough. However, at this time, an invitation came from the German Max Planck Institute. They were opening a postgraduate school, and admitted quite a few students in the first year, about 20 in total. They had simple admission conditions: one sent an application and was invited to an interview. I liked it, I went there and got admitted. Germany is a leading scientific power, the Max Planck Institute is well-known, and I felt it suited me.”
What made you love science so much? In the late 1990s, when you were a student, it was already not too popular with young people.
“My parents owned a lot of popular science literature. They did it in a very clever way: there were low shelves in my room, and these books were on them. I had no choice but to read it all. And something clicked in my head, so that I found a department of astronomy in Kharkiv in the mid-1990s, and started studying there.”
I know that DJing is a hobby of yours. Where did it come from? Does it intersect with your primary field?
“It does not intersect, it even interferes, as it takes my attention away. These are two very different human communities – one related to electronic music, and that of researchers. It is difficult for me to switch from one to the other, and scientists do not understand this. Of course, they listen to music, and a great variety of it, but I do not have any colleagues and friends from the scientific milieu who would listen to electronic music. I invited colleagues to my events on an occasion, but nothing came out of it. The music community is just like that too – I do not discuss science with DJs.
“Composing electronic music is also a captivating process which takes a lot of time. One can sit down for just a few hours of it, but then forget about everything and ‘wake up’ in front of the computer at 4 a.m.
“In general, my enthusiasm for it appeared accidentally. I just listened to music: first to electro-pop, then discovered underground, which is very popular in Germany. Apparently, Germany is a global leader in electronic music, and this environment has probably affected me. On some occasion, I bought myself hardware, that is, DJ equipment, I tried my hand at it, and really liked it. I decided to keep going in that direction.”
“I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE HUMAN ROLE IN HISTORY CAN COME TO AN END”
Maybe this year, the James Webb Space Telescope will get launched, which will allow for massive amounts of research to be done. And you, what scientific discoveries are you expecting this year?
“The Webb Telescope is an example of scientists getting a new tool that lets us see things we have never seen before. The tool itself helps to make a breakthrough. This telescope will allow us to observe the light of stars and galaxies in the infrared band, unlike the Hubble Space Telescope, which works in the visible and near-infrared bands. The infrared band is what the human eye cannot see. It is impossible to conduct such studies on Earth, because the Earth’s atmosphere is opaque to the infrared spectrum. So, you have to bring the telescope to a near-Earth orbit.
“In general, the field of discoveries is wide open. As far as physics and astronomy are concerned, scientists will be observing gravitational waves, in particular, radiation from black holes and neutron stars that are their sources.”
Many talk about large-scale robotic transition occurring in the near future. In your opinion, in what fields a robot will be unable to replace a human?
“A few years ago, everyone was skeptical about artificial intelligence. But neural networks are developing rapidly, and now I do not even know if there will be anything left that only a human will be able to do. I even acknowledge that the human role in history can come to an end. The robots will be able to do everything.”
