“Even though politicians of the governing coalition have declared that no snap election will be held, it does not mean that they are not preparing for that eventuality,” Den wrote in article “What Mikheil Saakashvili Needs a Party for?” on May 26, 2016. Almost immediately after the appointment of former president of Georgia as head of the Odesa Oblast State Administration (OSA), news of his possible political project in Ukraine started appearing in the media, but they mostly turned out to be just so much gossip. At least, Saakashvili and his associates denied each and every of them. In late May, the media spread the statement of former deputy prosecutor general David Sakvarelidze who claimed that he and former president of Georgia Saakashvili would create a new party in Ukraine.
The Day met Saakashvili in Warsaw at the conference “Belavezha: 25 Years After” and asked him about his political plans, the achievements over the year spent leading the Odesa OSA, and his vision of Ukraine in the new global context.
“I PREDICT THAT WE WILL SEE A HOT POLITICAL FALL”
MP Viktor Chumak recently announced that a nomination committee was already gathering people for a new party which is to be called the Wave. Why does it have such a name, what will its ideology be, and when will it take some definite organizational shape?
“The Wave will certainly be created, while the name stems from public demand for a wave that would completely change the political elite. But it is still too early to talk about party issues, let us return to them before the election. Creating a party in advance makes no sense. We live through a period of political ‘frost’ now, in the summer. However, I predict that we will see a hot political fall.”
Speaker of the Verkhovna Rada Andrii Parubii said that no snap election will be held. Does it mean that you will organize it in three years (for the next parliamentary election, scheduled for 2019)?
“I feel the mood of the Ukrainian society, which wants a reset due to the absence of reforms. Of course, there is no point in an election for MPs of the three largest factions, because they have seen their support falling. But to avoid a snap election, they must carry out reforms, and there is not even a sign now that they are going to do it. I am speaking to different groups, but we do not discuss the details of the party structure, since it is not my job at this stage. My job is to do what I do. I am gathering promising young people. The Odesa OSA’s experience shows I am succeeding in it. If such people get more jobs to do, they will work more effectively.”
“I SEE UKRAINIANS GETTING DISAPPOINTED, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS HOPE IN THEIR EYES JUST A YEAR AGO”
So, will this be yet another party without ideology and recognizable program? And will you join forces with other new or renewed parties? Because otherwise, you will scatter your votes.
“It will be based on reform ideas, including a complete abolition of bureaucratic barriers, creation of a truly transparent government, limiting the big money’s influence on the Ukrainian politics as much as possible, and distancing from oligarchs. I would describe this ideology as one of common sense, which is not to be divided into ‘left’ and ‘right.’ On the one hand, I am all for reducing state intervention in 90 percent of people’s lives, on the other hand, I want to have a strong state in the remaining 10 percent. Our state is ubiquitous at the moment, but its property has been effectively stolen by a few clans that take all the profits. Regarding joining forces, we need to have a broad coalition of reformers as the election’s winner. New forces have to consolidate and find new ways, it is absolutely clear. I think it should be a single party, but, again, it will take its final shape after the election will be called.”
According to April surveys of public opinion, your prospective party enjoys higher support than the president’s party.
“The surveys are not really useful, especially in the current fuzzy conditions, with many voters still undecided. I do not trust polls, only my insight. Before the Georgian election of 2012, pollsters said my party had three times the opposition’s support, both three months before the election and a month before it. But when I met people, their mood was showing me that we had lost. I see Ukrainians getting disappointed and growing angry, even though there was hope in their eyes just a year ago. I am skeptical about building a policy based on sociology and opinions of focus groups. True politician is different from fake politician in that they create public opinion instead of following others’ advice.”
“WE HAVE LAID THE GROUNDWORK SO THAT PEOPLE FEEL THAT THE GOVERNMENT CAN LOOK DIFFERENT”
Let us discuss your achievements as head of the Odesa OSA and obstacles you have faced.
“Let people of Odesa tell you about that. Most importantly, we have laid the groundwork so that people feel that the government can look different, including police chiefs and senior officials of the customs service and prosecutor’s office. We brought in a large group of young people to govern the region. They are now somewhat disappointed, but it is a benign frustration that will generate constructive creative work. I am sure it will happen a lot sooner than many think.
“Regarding obstacles, the Kyiv to Odesa airfare has been as low as 499 hryvnias since this July. That is, we got the head of the State Aviation Service fired a year ago, and it took a real scandal, but it is only now that we are reaping the fruits of it. Of course, it is a minor achievement, but it is something at least. It shows once again how much depends on people.
“Another example has to do with my 2014 proposal to reroute transit flows from China to Europe, so that they pass through Central Asia and Ukraine, including Odesa region, instead of passing through Russia. It is the so-called ‘New Silk Road.’ In February last year, I brought a delegation from Azerbaijan to Odesa for talks. As a result, all the issues in Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Georgia have been resolved, and agreement reached, but not in Ukraine, because the state railways’ head of freight blocked negotiations, not wanting to lower freight rates. He got into a traffic accident while driving under influence in July, and after the video of the accident hit the Internet, he was fired, and finally our projects have started to be implemented. This is how combination of public opinion and small steps works. Yes, a single person was blocking a very important political and economic project.”
“WHEN PEOPLE TELL ME ABOUT THE SUCCESSES OF DECENTRALIZATION, I SMILE RUEFULLY”
Do you have sufficient funding for the implementation of your projects? The concept of independent local government budgets is being implemented, and it ought to make your job easier.
“Funding is hard to get, given the well-established tradition to allocate funds in exchange for kickbacks, which thrives in the regional councils and city councils alike. When people tell me about the successes of decentralization, I smile ruefully. In my opinion, decentralization in Ukraine has completely failed. It is occurring, yes, but it is a lawless process.”
And what it should be like, in your opinion?
“We should not mindlessly transfer all powers to local governments. For example, powers over tourist zones, customs policy, the regulation of licenses, including standards for service industries, should not be transferred. It is needed to prevent local governments from creating additional bureaucratic barriers, robbing people through these barriers, and making strategic investments dependent on a local corrupt official’s goodwill. For example, no plot which you can use to attract nationally important investment should be transferred to a village council. We need to build hotels in the 50 kilometer-wide coastal zone instead of kickback-funded private mansions which will be destroyed by the sea anyway. Those powers that are transferred to local governments should be accompanied by controls, including those of the public. We must not allow some individuals to grow rich from the community’s assets.”
“UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS ARE DYING FOR THE WHOLE OF EUROPE AS WELL”
From the vantage point of your political experience, will Ukraine ever regain its borders of February 20, 2014?
“I am absolutely sure of that. After Ukraine completes correct, real reforms, Vladimir Putin’s regime will begin to crack at the seams. Ukraine will win this war through a combination of frontline deterrence and real reforms in Kyiv. Our politicians will thus destroy Putin’s basis. Deterrence, meanwhile, means going on with what we are doing now as we are blocking the enemy’s offensives.
“What are the Minsk Agreements? I would have very much liked Ukraine never undertaking these commitments. Such a step undermined us very much in Georgia in 2008, when we had to live with Eduard Shevardnadze’s past commitments. It was a time bomb. And so, we must be very careful about it. I understand that the West is exerting pressure, because they see it as an opportunity to get rid of a headache, to transfer all responsibility to us. But we must not allow them to get rid of it, for Ukrainian soldiers are dying for the whole of Europe as well.”
Do you tie your political future to Ukraine?
“Definitely. You could say that I do not separate Ukraine and Georgia, because they have a 100 percent coincidence of interests and 100 percent moral similarity. It is particularly true now amid the huge tensions in the region, caused by Russia and now Turkey. Therefore, we must deepen our cooperation, Georgia must take hold of Ukraine. What Ukraine will be like? This is the crucial question.”
