May 13 marked two months of the time when the white smoke over the Vatican announced that a new Pope had been chosen. Over this time interest to figure of Pope Francis has been increasing – what causes such enthusiasm? What can we expect of the new Pope? How his relations with other religions might develop? The Day asked Professor Adriano Roccucci, famous Italian historian, head of the Department of the Modern History of the Third Roman University, Secretary General of the Community of Sant’Egidio, these questions. Professor Roccucci studies the history of the Russian Orthodox Church. In 2011 he published the book Stalin e il patriarca. La Chiesa ortodossa e potere sovietico 1917-1958 which will be released in Russian this fall.
During Professor’s visit to Kyiv, The Day got a chance to talk with Mr. Roccucci about the new Pope, about his choice of name Francis, his ideological orientation, goals, and relations with the Orthodox world and Islam.
“The fact that Cardinal Bergoglio was chosen to be the Pope became a real surprise of history. For the first time a Jesuit became the Pope. The Jesuits is the order based on a high level of spiritual and intellectual education of its members, the Pope himself is of high ascetic rigor, but, at the same time, he is a very intellectual man capable of asking himself important questions about the modern world. Secondly, for the first time a man from Latin America has become the Pope – Pope Francis comes from Buenos Aires, Argentina the most European of all Latin American cities, the most European of all Latin American countries. People there have always looked up to Europe in many ways and the population consists of communities of immigrants from different European countries. Buenos Aires is also a city that reflects the range of religious communities of the European context – from the Orthodox community, both Greek and Russian, to the largest Jewish community in Latin America.
“You should add one more factor to determine this surprise – the choice of name. Francis was not on the long list of Pope’s names. Saint Francis of Assisi means Church that is close to the poor, that preaches the gospel in the streets, in the squares, where people live. His is a Christian who seeks peace, reconciles people, overcomes conflicts, clashes, and hatred. It means special attention to the Creation and all of these things were emphasized by Pope Francis.”
When the Pope explained why he chose that name he also said: “How I would like a poor church for the poor!” What does a “poor church” mean?
“Attention to the poor is not a commitment of the Church to develop social rhetoric that can be popular among people (to be honest, it is not popular here in Europe, but it might be in Latin America). Care for the poor comes from the very origin – from the image of Jesus, the gospel, and it has always been inherent in the life of the Church. The Church is often criticized for the fact that it is rich, but sometimes it is quite relative concept: Church is like a family with lots of children and you need to have funds to be able to take care of all of them. But I think that ‘poor Church’ means, first of all, a church that lives with the poor and does not seek for its own pleasure, is not self-contained.”
As you just said the problems of the poor is not the most popular issue. If the Church draws so much attention to the poor in a world where success is cultivated, it runs a risk of driving people away from it, don’t you think so?
“The Church does not aim to achieve a good result in the opinion polls. Today, the largest part of world’s population still lives in poverty, that’s why being close to them means being close to the greater number of people. However, love for the poor in the modern world is a clear evidence of the values that lie at the heart of Christian life. Therefore, it can talk to everyone – the poor and the rich because it offers a new vision, a different approach to life. Of course, the Church is not meant to go with the flow, it has to preach the Gospel, and the Gospel often contradicts the general thinking.”
At the same time, the Pope said that the Church should not be in opposition to society.
“That’s true, because the Pope said that the Church should show the face of God’s mercy to both man and society. He believes that the principle of opposing the society often means that the church goes into its own shell and lives in a state of self-sufficiency. But according to its calling it should go out of its shell and go to people, especially those, who live on the periphery of the world and society. This does not mean accepting any deviations from the identity of a Christian, does not mean calling good what is considered evil. In his life Pope Francis showed this: when he was a Cardinal of Buenos Aires he was not afraid to be in a serious peaceful, of course, but real opposition to the authorities over the protection of the Church’s position on the issues of morality.”
PEOPLE IN THE MODERN WORLD ARE CONFUSED IN MANY WAYS BECAUSE IT IS HARD FOR THEM TO IDENTIFY GUIDELINES FOR THEIR LIVES
In your opinion the enthusiasm about the choice of Pope Francis proves the fact that people are feeling the greater need to search for God and greater need for Church service?
“This enthusiasm is striking. It is clearly felt in Rome, where lots of people come to his audiences every day, to Sunday prayer time and liturgies. The same enthusiasm is seen in other countries too. Why? I think that people in the modern globalized world are largely confused, because it is hard for them to identify guidelines for their lives. Therefore, they are searching for guidelines that can be given to them by a voice of somebody, whose moral authority is recognized. They are looking for these voices, which are so scarce in our world. It also seems to me that modern people suffer from some kind of abandonment, because in our world there is a significant crisis of fatherhood, while the need for paternity is anthropologically inherent in man. I think that the Pope with his first steps, simple approach to people, with his kindness and, at the same time, spiritual wisdom is viewed as a father. Similar effects were observed when more than 50 years ago, another Pope was elected, also an old man – John XXIII, who is still remembered by people as the Good Pope.”
In his first speech, which Bergoglio delivered as Pope, when he was just elected, he never called himself the Pope, only the Bishop of Rome. Why?
“This is very important. First, it is fully consistent with the realities, since the Pope is the Bishop of Rome and the Cardinals get together to elect the Bishop of Rome. The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church because he is the Bishop of Rome. It is a very important ecclesiological point that matches the Church tradition of the first millennium, when the Church was still undivided. Pope Francis in his first speech used the old definition of the Roman Church, which belongs to the father of the Church of the first generation Ignatius of Antioch. He said that he was elected bishop of the Church of Rome, which presides in love. And we cannot fail to notice how this approach of Pope Francis corresponds to the ecclesiological spirit, the ecclesiological sensitivity, which is very important for the Christian world.
“But I would also like to emphasize another point. In one of the first speeches that Pope delivered before the diplomatic corps at the Holy See, he was referring to another name of the Pope – Pontifex, to the etymology of this Greek word that means ‘the one who builds bridges.’ He said that he has a calling to create bridges between people, nations, between cultures and between churches and religions. That means that Pope’s service has a calling to create opportunities for communication between people. This says a lot about how the Pope Francis views his role, his task – to promote communication. Communication means reconciliation, dialogue, compromise.”
WE COME OUT OF THE DECADE WHICH WAS DOMINATED BY THE IDEA OF IRRECONCILABLE CONFRONTATION
How can such dialogue develop with the Orthodox Church?
“I think that the Pope Francis is well aware of how valuable and important Orthodox Church is for the inter-Christian dialogue and both Ukraine and Russia are crucial as the space of fundamental importance for future of the Christianity and for the future inter-Christian dialogue.”
Is it possible that the Catholic Church will start a dialogue with Islam? There is a widespread fear in the society that in the future mosques will replace the Christian temples…
“This fear is very exaggerated. For example, in Italy the second religion after Roman Catholicism was Orthodox Christianity. Immigrants from Eastern Europe have exceeded the number of immigrants from Muslim countries. The indicators at the global level show growth of Islam, but they also show the growth of Christianity. The Muslim world is very complex – it is large and different, there are even different parts of it – the more radical and more moderate ones. We come out of the decade which was dominated by the idea of irreconcilable confrontation between the Muslim and Christian world in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks in New York, the wars in Afghanistan and especially in Iraq. The Islamic world is familiar with different processes – the so-called Arab Spring, but, on the other hand, the tragedy of Syria, the movements in Pakistan, where Christians live under the pressure of violence and persecution, and these are major issues. But there is also the legacy of possible peaceful coexistence of Christian people and Muslims the way it was in different historical contexts. I think that Pope’s desire to build bridges is also relevant regarding the Islamic world.”
