After the abortive coup d’etat on the night of July 16 and the ensuing actions to neutralize its consequences, Turkey is now the No.1 topic of international discourse. When thousands of people of various walks of life, including educationists and doctors, were arrested and some media were closed, newspapers in many countries began to write about a clampdown on democracy in a country that has been a NATO member since 1952 and an EU membership candidate for about 20 years.
For this reason, it was very timely for Den’s Summer School of Journalism students to meet Yonet Can TEZEL, the Ambassador of Turkey to Ukraine. This made it possible to receive first-hand information about the situation in that country and Turkey’s relations with the EU and NATO after the failed coup attempt and to inquire whether Ankara will retain its position not to recognize Russia’s annexation of Crimea. The Turkish diplomat with a 27-year-long record tried to be as honest as possible with the students and immediately warned them that he could not be entirely frank but, in any case, would be saying nothing but the truth. To begin with, the ambassador explained his vision of diplomatic service and the role of the Realpolitik concept in governmental politics. “Historically, Turkish diplomacy has always been realistic because we had to defend ourselves all the time from the neighboring great powers, particularly Russia. Therefore, I recognize the importance of German Realpolitik in today’s world, but the traditional definition of politics does not make it possible to fully explain the realities of this world,” Mr. Tezel said.
“IT IS NOW TIME TO DRUM UP SUPPORT FOR DEMOCRACY IN TURKEY”
Oksana KOVAL, Ivan Franko National University of Lviv: “A version says that the abortive coup is an act of revenge in the relations between Erdogan and Putin. Another one claims it is a payback for Turkish integration into Europe. Which version do you think is more credible?”
Y.T.: “When I was keeping track of the revolt, Mr. Siruk was the first Ukrainian journalist to turn to me for commentary. I could not believe my eyes. I thought it was just a terrorist operation. Can you imagine this? The premier appears on television at 10:30, a prime time in Istanbul, and says the army has mutinied. As I studied political science, my first reaction was that people wouldn’t allow this to happen because a very active civil society had emerged in Turkey in the past 25 years.
“It is known today that there were secret units in the Turkish military and governmental organizations, which organized the mutiny. Their leader – a religious figure – has been staying in the US for a very long time. In the past decade this ‘structure’ has infiltrated its people into the law-enforcement bodies, police, and the army. They even managed to organize bogus judicial proceedings against some civil servants, which ‘fizzled out’ about three years ago. Some suggested bringing that secret group to justice, there were a lot of publications and rumors. Society was divided: some believed that those people were Islamists and were to be stopped; others thought that Islamists were also part of society and should be left alone.
“Later, in the past few years, quite a few cases have been opened against them. Rumors began to spread that a plot was being hatched. It was planned to stage the coup earlier – at about 3 a.m. on Saturday. Other law-enforcement bodies had learned about this, and they decided to do it still earlier – at prime time, about 10 p.m. The electronic sources of the arrested have lists of the ones they were planning to place in certain offices. All the arrests were aimed at apprehending those on the lists. But there should be a lawful judicial procedure, and everybody has the right to defense. If their guilt is proved, they will be held responsible.
“The Maidan claimed about 100 human lives, which was a major trauma for Ukrainian society. The death toll in Turkey last week was almost 250. The latest information says there were snipers in Istanbul. The Ukrainians know very well what kind of mood is on our streets now. The people are demanding that the culprits be punished severely. It is now the right time to drum up support for democracy in Turkey. The time has gone when one could say: don’t interfere, it’s our internal affair. The European Union and the Council of Europe, whose members we are striving to be, are looking very closely at what is going on in our country from the viewpoint of democracy. Of course, one can express concern about the state of our democracy more cautiously on the official level. But the main thing now is: hug Turkey!”
“UKRAINE IS CLOSE TO US AND MIGHT TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE EVENTS AND DRAW ITS OWN CONCLUSIONS”
Y.T.: “We should not be ungrateful, for our partners, including Ukraine, have expressed their support for the legitimate bodies of power. One of the EU leaders said at a press briefing: ‘If Turkey should bring back the death penalty, we will immediately stop the [EU accession] negotiation process.’ This immediately hit the headlines in all interviews and TV programs, for it is more interesting and sensational. For some reason, the media are criticizing Turkey for trying to stop an antidemocratic action in a democratic way. Capital punishment was abolished in Turkey in 2004-06 after a lengthy debate. It is unrealistic to reinstate it, for it’s quite a long process. Suppose, this will happen, but capital punishment cannot be meted out to plotters because, under international legislation, the law has no retroactive effect.
“Just imagine people see air bombardments and shootouts and lose their kin. Somebody may have said: let’s bring back the death penalty! Things of this kind do occur in such situations. The president and the prime minister answered: ‘This question is for parliament to discuss.’ But, even though this is not an urgent matter and it is next to impossible to do so, the EU and the US have given it a front-page treatment. But we want to be in Europe in spite of Europe. If these standards were in the Middle East, not in the EU, then we would like to be in the Middle East. Besides, there are problems in the EU itself, there are people who would not like to see Turkey as partner and who are certain to take advantage [of these events] to find a pretext for keeping us at bay.
“Ukrainian journalists seem to be looking at world events through European spectacles. Ukraine is close to us and might take a closer look at the events and draw its own conclusions.”
Dmytro BAIDA, National University of Ostroh Academy: “One of the important parts of Turkish social life is Ataturk’s heritage as far as religious solidarity is concerned. Is the current danger to the government going to result in a tougher religious policy?”
Y.T.: “I don’t think so. You may have noticed that there are more conservative-minded people on the streets now. But, what is more, the reaction of civil society has changed everything. All political parties made a statement on that night. One of the social democratic parties announced that its members could come to Istanbul and take part in a rally in support of democracy. The social democrats invited representatives of the ruling party to join them. However, this party did not vote for the state of emergency law, which was eventually passed.”
“WE ARE DISAPPOINTED ABOUT CHANGED EU MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA”
Vita SHNAIDER, National University of Kyiv Mohyla Academy: “Turkey is striving to join the EU. But we can see reconciliation with Russia now. Is Turkey going to move towards the EU or Russia?”
Y.T.: “Turkey’s foreign policy will not change for many reasons. But first let me say a few words about the crisis in our relations with Russia. You know that Russia broke off all contacts with us until the recent weeks. Turkey was the only country that stayed out of any touch with Russia. This was quite abnormal because even NATO maintained contacts with Russia. Turkey’s position about Ukraine and Crimea was clear from the very beginning, and we have always made it public. The Russians know that we will not change this attitude.
“We continue to integrate into the EU, but Europe also has problems. We are disappointed with Europe’s double standards, changed membership criteria, and prejudices. I don’t mean all of Europe, but you can see what the far right are doing – xenophobia, and so on.”
Maria CHADIUK, National University of Kyiv Mohyla Academy: “An expert told Den that Erdogan differs from Putin in that he formed democratic institutions. But now the president of Turkey is breaking them: people are being arrested, and we are particularly surprised at purges in the educational sector. Could you comment on this?”
Y.T.: “I’ve received information that the mutineers are linked to a secret Islamist group. The authorities knew about these people and were going to bring them to justice, but the bureaucratic machine failed to do this quickly. They were in touch through WhatsApp during the revolt and used specific wording: ‘Go there. If the military come, kill them, take up arms, go to military bases, and help the mutineers.’ Of course, not all the people who did so were then arrested because some of them were in other places. Only those who were well known and were going to stand trial were arrested. But, in any case, this should be done in line with the norms of international law, such as, say, the European Convention on Human Rights.
“I am sure that if some people are found innocent, they will be freed, while those found guilty will face punishment. The number of the detained is large, which raises the question of whether the government will be able to cope with so many criminal cases.
“Whenever Western leaders speak of this, they should take a more judicious approach. What did the Europeans do to settle the Maidan crisis? Were their attempts successful? It is very difficult for 28 countries to reach a joint decision. Aware of this, we are saying: ‘We are moving to Europe in spite of Europe.’ In any case, the EU itself should adhere to the principles it wants us to adhere to.”
“WE ARE A COUNTRY WITH THE SECOND LARGEST ARMY IN THE ALLIANCE, WHICH IS THE FOUNDATION OF OUR SECURITY”
Maryna SNIZHYNSKA, National University of Kyiv Mohyla Academy: “John Kerry said: ‘NATO will be scrutinizing Turkey… to ensure that it fulfills the alliance’s requirement that members adhere to democratic governance.’ What do you think about further development of relations between Turkey and NATO?”
Y.T.: “I think they will develop the way they did in 1952, when we became a NATO member. Let us recall the press conference of Mogherini and Kerry. Only the last phrase in Mogherini’s statement was used – that the death penalty is a problem for Turkey. We know, of course, that reinstating the death penalty will stop our integration into Europe. So, in my opinion, this should not have been said on this level.
“I presume that Kerry said after her that NATO requires democracy. This was interpreted so lamely that Mr. Kerry had to say the next day that he did not mean this. We are a country with the second largest army in the Alliance, which is the foundation of our security.”
Khrystyna PETRENKO, Illia Mechnikov Odesa National University: “Turkey has lately shown a tendency to close the opposition media. The latest instance is revoking the licenses of all the TV and radio companies linked with Fethullah Gulen. To what extent important is the freedom of speech for the state and what is the role of the free media?”
Y.T.: “Forget about democracy if there’s no free press. I saw the list of the shut-down media – they are very close to the secret group. I know at least one media that was not linked with the group – this mistake was found and corrected quickly. Errors sometimes occur in such periods of time. All the other media are really linked to this group. There will be an investigation, and we will see what the system of justice will find, but there can be surprises.”
“OUR EMBASSY HAS ALWAYS BEEN WRITING TO ANKARA ABOUT WHAT IS TO BE DONE TO SUPPORT UKRAINE”
Oksana VOITKO, Ivan Franko National University of Lviv: “The impression is that Ankara-Kyiv relations considerably improved after a Russian warplane was shot down over Turkey. The proof of this is numerous visits and meetings of both countries’ top officials. What do you think of this?”
Y.T.: “After the airplane was downed, the Turkish-Ukrainian relations did not improve but began to develop faster in the chosen direction. Back in 2003, before the Orange Revolution, I was the chief of the Strategic Planning Department, and I saw a document that said that Ukraine was a strategically important country and we should develop relations with it. We established strategic partnership in 2011, after which presidents and five or six ministers would meet annually. After the Maidan events, we voiced our support for Ukraine. Our embassy has always been writing to Ankara about what is to be done to support Ukraine because Ukraine is important to us.
“It was often said before the warplane incident that there was a potential in our relations. After this we got together, looked at projects, and just sped up this process. Earlier, we talked very much about military-technical cooperation projects, our representatives went to Ukraine, Ukrainians visited Turkey, but there was no tangible progress. But now the number of visits has considerably gone up, we began to get back to the old, ignored, projects and even launch new ones.”
“THE ENGLIGH-LANGUAGE BOOK A CASE WITHOUT A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS HELPS VERY MUCH TO UNDERSTAND UKRAINIAN POLITICS”
Anna HOLISHEVSKA, Ivan Franko National University of Lviv: “You said that, before granting an interview, you see a concrete media and inquire about its role in society, its editor and staff. What do you think of Den’s role in forming the internal and external informational space?”
Y.T.: “I’ve always wanted to know what kind of a newspaper Den is, although I also take interest in other publications. I know many people employed here, including Mr. Siruk. Whenever you represent an institution, your personal qualities have an impact on its reputation, so be very careful about this. You will be the envoys of your newspapers. Let me describe Den: it is an informational and fairly patriotic newspaper. Unfortunately, I have no command of either Ukrainian or Russian, so I am limited in judging this publication. I know that the newspaper does not run after sensations. I don’t think the readers’ circle is very wide, for what matters here is intellectual perception of information. My wife and I are in rapture over the publication of English-language books. The book Ukraine Incognita is our favorite gift to people who have just come to Ukraine. Another English-language book we’ve chosen from Den’s Library, A Case without a Statute of Limitations, helps very much to understand Ukrainian politics.”
