Brussels will host a meeting of the NATO-Russia Council on April 20, it being the first such gathering since the annexation of Crimea and the start of the Russian aggression in the Donbas. One wonders what results the leaders of the North Atlantic Alliance are hoping to achieve at this meeting, considering the fact that even after the imposition of Western sanctions Russia is not complying with the first two provisions of the Minsk Agreements. This was the opening question of The Day’s exclusive interview with Deputy Secretary General of NATO Alexander VERSHBOW, who was in Ukraine on April 13-14, meeting with Ukrainian leaders and speaking at the Kyiv Security Forum.
“I don’t have high expectations for this meeting, but allies feel it is important to have a regular dialog with Russia, if only to clarify our differences, and also to try to bring back some stability and predictability to a very dangerous relationship. The events with the US ship, Donald Cook, just illustrate that Russia’s provocative military activism increases the risk of an accidental conflict. Their claims that it is perfectly normal are absurd. This is reckless, irresponsible, unsafe. So, that’s one of the subjects we will be talking about, but, of course, the first subject is the crisis in and around Ukraine, and we will make clear to Russians their responsibility for the situation, for the damage to European security, and their responsibility for implementing the Minsk Agreements in full. Ukraine has obligations too, but the Russians have not delivered even the first element of Minsk – the ceasefire. So, I’m sure we will have very sharp differences, but dialog at least is a way to minimize risks.”
But maybe you have not heard today’s direct line with Vladimir Putin…
“Not yet.”
He mentioned that the Russian side has done everything to fulfill the Minsk agreements, and that Ukrainian side has done nothing. He had mentioned law about amnesty, change of constitution, etc. And you said in your speech that NATO does not accept annexation of Crimea, etc. Don’t you think that there should be need for any actions to change Russia’s behavior or Putin’s calculation, change his logical behavior?
“Well, I think it’s very clear, and this is not just NATO talking, but the European Union, United States, that the sanctions will stay in effect until this full implementation of Minsk. We disagree with Putin’s characterization of the situation. The first requirements of the Minsk Agreements – the first and the second – were the ceasefire. Russia has not delivered on that. Just in recent days, many heavy weapons, which were supposed to be banned, are back in action causing tremendous damage. And of course, part of the problem is Russia continuing to pretend its forces are not there. We know they are there, and they also have direct control of the separatists. No one in NATO believes this is some kind of internal conflict. This is about aggression against a sovereign state, so Russia has responsibilities alongside Ukraine. Both have responsibilities.”
Do you think there exists the way how to force Russia to change its behavior?
“Well, in addition to the sanctions, of course, NATO is building up its own defense and deterrence. We’re also supporting Ukraine just as we are supporting Georgia with practical measures to assist with defense reforms, professionalization of the armed forces, increasing capabilities in areas such as logistics, command and control, cyber defense; helping Ukraine be better equipped to defend itself. So, Russia also has lost its place in G8, they have suffered a number of measures in response to their aggression, and I think they didn’t calculate that the West would be so united. But we are united and that’s our maybe most important response.”
What do you think about Trump’s rhetoric that NATO is obsolete; that we need rearrangement of some pacts, agreements, alliances and those should pay for their defense?
“Well, especially since I am an American I have to stay completely clear when I’m commenting on election campaign. But I can say that NATO is, in my opinion, more important than ever, both in its traditional function of providing for defense and deterrence against aggression against the NATO countries themselves, but also in being a mechanism for extending stability beyond our own borders. That includes what we do to help Ukraine, it includes our efforts to strengthen the military capabilities of countries like Jordan and Morocco, as they fight against Daesh, so I think the situation that we face in world today means we need more NATO, not less.
“Yes, there is a longstanding problem about sharing the burdens within NATO. Many politicians have complained about this. The gap, if anything, is getting bigger in the last 10-15 years, and it’s important that Europeans listen to the frustrations in the United States about shouldering so much of the burden, and they boost their defense spending. But I think there is already movement in a right direction, 16 countries increased their defense spending last year – 16 NATO countries – so, it’s the beginning, it’s not the end, but the burden sharing issue is now back on the radar screen.”
And what can we, in Ukraine, expect from this NATO summit in Warsaw?
“First of all, the fact that we have decided to have such a summit and to invite President Poroshenko, I think, reflects the commitment of Allies to Ukraine’s sovereignty and its security, and the Summit meeting is an opportunity to highlight the work we’ve done together, the progress Ukraine has been making on defense reform, and what we intend to do in the next few years. It’s not just going to be a photo opportunity. I think the focus will be on how can NATO and Ukraine work together to promote full implementation of the reforms that Ukraine itself has put on the agenda, especially defense and security sector reforms. As I said in my speech, results so far are mixed, there is still some inertia in the system here, even some resistance to reform, so hopefully the Summit will be an opportunity for the process. That’s what we will focus on.”
When could Ukraine apply to the NATO membership?
“As I said previously, Ukraine has the right, as any European democracy, to seek or not seek NATO membership. Ukrainian leadership has chosen to do this in a deliberate, step-by-step way: first focus on the reforms, on improving the professional level of the armed forces, introducing NATO standards, bringing the whole defense system into conformity with NATO standards, in other words, do the homework now, and talk about membership when the homework is done. I think that’s a realistic approach. We will help Ukraine to not only do its own homework, but get top grades.”
There were some suggestions that Rosa Gottemoeller would replace you. Is that right?
“My term is coming to an end in the fall. I’ll be fully engaged for the Warsaw Summit and a few months after that. There is more than one candidate to succeed me, the job is now opened to candidates from all the allies. Rose Gottemoeller is the American candidate, and I think a very good one, but there is also a couple of other candidates, so the Secretary General has to meet with these candidates and make his own judgment on who will the best ‘alter ego’ to serve at his side as the Deputy Secretary General. So, I can’t predict the outcome.”
What will you do after your mission is over?
“I’m still thinking about that. I am too busy really to focus all of my energies on my next stage in my career. Of course, I am already retired from the State Department, I have been working already in retirement, working full-time both for the Pentagon and NATO, so… My wife and I think it’s the time to slow down a little bit, so maybe, I will work for one of the Washington think-tanks, maybe do some consulting for the State Department or the Pentagon, but maybe not be on alert seven days a week, 24 hours a day. But of course, I could be tempted by another government opportunity. I am trying to slow down, but I will still remain interested in Ukraine.”
