The latest events in Ukraine are “spotlighting,” as never before, the true partners of this country. One of the three European countries that most strongly support Ukraine in fighting the aggressor is Lithuania. A delegation of the nongovernmental organization International Initiative to Support Ukraine has visited Vilnius as part of preparation for the 2nd International Baltic and Black Sea Forum to discuss further cooperation at the level of citizen diplomacy. During this meeting, Andrius Kubilius, a well-known politician, statesman, ex-premier of Lithuania, gave an exclusive interview to The Day.
Mr. Kubilius, what role do you assign to civil society in contemporary life?
“We can see that civil society is playing just a unique role in Ukraine now. It is difficult to compare it with even the experience of us and other post-Soviet states. Firstly, it was the Revolutionary of Dignity itself two years ago, and then the defense of Ukraine’s territorial integrity and the volunteer movement. I would say it is unique even on the European level.
“If we recall the activity of Lithuanian civil society in the 1990s, it also played a historic role. Fortunately, we managed to pass the road of liberation without a war, but civil society was quite an influential force during and after the revolution. But it has showed itself at a higher level in Ukraine. It is very important that your civil society should not get fatigued. For people always have very high expectations, but, unfortunately, things do not change as fast as you would like them to at the state level. It is therefore important not to be disappointed but to try to take concrete steps that will bring you closer to Europe.”
Do you have a recipe for how to ward off counterrevolution?
“You should lay all the groundwork for a European-style democratic system so that both center-right and center-left (based on a certain European social democratic idea) pro-European forces wield influence. People should have a right to choose between normal political forces, not between the past and the future.
“When people are disappointed with the political forces now in power (even if they claim they are pro-European), and there is no worthy alternative, there will be the danger of a revanche of ‘yesterday.’ We faced this danger in 1992 during the first post-revolutionary elections. We, members of the Sajudis, a rightwing political force, hoped that people would be grateful to us for bringing them independence. But a difficult economic situation in the country at the time and absence of an adequate political alternative caused the electorate to vote for the ‘has-beens.’ But, fortunately, our former communists understood in the two years of independence that they should at least look like European social democrats, and, accordingly, they no longer spoke of coming back to the Soviet past. A free nationwide spirit that hovered over all the parties left no option for anything but the European path. This equally applied to both the Left and the Right. The only difference was that the Left emphasized social protection for every individual, while the Right prioritized establishing viable and effective state mechanisms.”
Around what goal can and must the national mass media rally together in a difficult period, such as one in Ukraine now?
“The main unifying point is protection against the Kremlin’s aggression. Secondly, it is integration into Europe and European reforms inside the country. It is these reforms that ensure the overall success of a state. Compared to Lithuania, Ukraine was unlucky in the 1990s for various reasons. Lithuania rather quickly joined the European community, while it has taken you years to pass this road. The European vector has remained unchanged in Lithuania, although different parties were in power. This is the key to our success. Conversely, Ukraine did not make full use of the European prospect, on the one hand, and lost a lot of time in search of a different path, playing between Moscow and Brussels.”
Civil society in Ukraine has initiated and is promoting a movement towards a Baltic and Black Sea community...
“This idea has a very strong historical background. Our common history until the late 18th century causes us also to think of a common future. This kind of unity is in our genes. I would even say as follows: I can see a very good opportunity for this kind of informal community as part of Ukraine’s integration into the European Union. Lithuania and Poland, above all, can and, what is more, want to help Ukraine carry out European reforms. We are interested historically and strategically in the success of Ukraine.”
What are you personally doing for this?
“I often visit Ukraine, and now, as a Presidential Council member, I take part in many conferences and forums, and share my experience. The changes Ukraine is undergoing are part of geopolitics in the whole of Europe. It is important that Ukrainians and representatives of other European states should know this.”
Unfortunately, civil society and politicians often seem to be worlds apart. What would you like to wish Ukrainian civil society and present-day Ukrainian politicians?
“As a matter of fact, civil society is supposed to supervise what is going on and to lobby new ideas. This is its natural condition. I would be surprised to hear civil society applaud to the government and thank it for good work. It would lose its purpose in this case. We could see this I-approve-of attitude in the Soviet era. A democratic civil society is always critical of the government. But I would advise Ukrainian civil society to learn to set long-term goals – first of all, integration into Europe. You should be realists and understand that this integration will take quite a long period. There will be an impasse without reforms. Of course, some reforms may be carried out quicker and others more slowly. The crucial thing is that people should feel their effect. You should be exacting towards the government but have fundamental optimism inside. One must be exacting towards the leadership, but do not break the whole state!
“I would also wish politicians to have a strategic idea of Ukraine’s advance towards Europe and, what is more, to take clear and easy-to-grasp actions. On the basis of my own experience, I’d like to caution you against the temptation of seeking ‘your own way.’ We also made this kind of attempts. They resulted in nothing. It is important to follow the time-tested European legal acts – trying to bypass them is just a waste of time.”
Thank you for the interview and for giving wholehearted support to Ukraine!
COMMENTARY
Taras OSAULENKO, chairman, nongovernmental organization International Initiative to Support Ukraine:
“The main goal of the Baltic and Black Sea Alliance is to consolidate the civic political forces of Eastern European countries that border on the Russian Federation and used to be part of the Russian and then Soviet empires: Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, and Georgia. These and other counties of the region have freed themselves from the Russian imperial yoke and influence by way of wide-scale liberation movements and embarked on the path of building a civilized European society. The natural inclination of former Russian colonies to an alliance for the purpose of self-defending from Russia’s military, informational, and religious expansionism is causing Eastern European countries to speed up cooperation in the political, military, and informational fields. Poland, Lithuania, and Ukraine are initiators of this real and natural alliance. This kind of national commonwealth was variously advertised in different historical periods. In particular, on the part of Ukraine, the ideological promoters of a Baltic and Black Sea alliance were the UNR President Mykhailo Hrushevsky and Yurii Lypa, the ideologue of Ukrainian nationalism in the 1930s, who proposed a geopolitical ‘Black Sea doctrine.’ Today, the idea of the Intermarium geopolitical project is being endorsed by Poland’s new President Andrzej Duda and the well-known Lithuanian politicians Andrius Kubilius and Vytautas Landsbergis.
“The nongovernmental organization International Initiative to Support Ukraine has chosen further development of the Baltic and Black Sea Alliance as a linchpin of its activity, as a natural form of the protection of Eastern European countries from the Russian imperial threat. This was on top of the agenda of the 1st Baltic and Black Sea Forum held under our organization’s auspices in November 2015 in Kyiv. We hope that a new impetus to cooperation between the region’s civic political movements and to the strengthening of contacts between politicians and public activists will be given by the 2nd Baltic and Black Sea Forum to be held in Kyiv in late March of this year, which, we are sure, will be a milestone in the development of regional cooperation, particularly in the field of security.”
