PACE Vice President, Ukrainian MP Heorhii LOHVYNSKYI represents both Ukrainians and Crimean Tatars. He kindly agreed to an interview with The Day during the 10th Kyiv Security Forum. He was asked to comment on whether Ukraine had done enough to secure its nation-state, the status of Ukrainian nationals currently in the Russia-occupied territories, and what is being done to get back the annexed Crimea.
NO ONE FEELS SAFE IN CRIMEA
One of the key issues on the 10th Kyiv Security Forum’s agenda is Ukraine-NATO cooperation. What is there to prevent Ukraine from achieving NATO membership? Could this be official Kyiv’s stand that appears to rely on words rather than deeds?
“Some politicians believe that Ukraine’s NATO membership should be decided by this forum. If and when, this decision would have an impact on Ukraine’s geopolitical status – and this has been the case with a number of countries. The Ukrainian political leadership seems to be unaware of what this country needs NATO membership for, so [our parliament] could vote for the wrong decision, relying on biased data. For a number of years we’ve been fed propaganda, to the effect that NATO is our enemy. A number of Ukrainians still believe this Soviet, utterly false, stereotype. We must change it.”
The impression is that those “upstairs” don’t bother to explain their intentions and action plan to the masses.
“There are lots of things that should be explained to the masses. Those ‘upstairs’ should keep closer contact with the man in the street, considering that the effectiveness of the administration depends on popular support, among other things. This will never happen, for as long as there remains a wall, between the man in the street and those in power, for as long as there remains an information gap that can be filled in by the enemy in wartime. [Independent] Ukraine has long been effectively cooperating with NATO, including joint military exercises in Ukraine and NATO experts training our troops; there is a security arrangement of sorts between NATO and Ukraine, with both sides having equal rights and responsibilities. In other words, until Ukraine can become a member of NATO, it can take advantage of this integrated system of relationships, under a joint action plan. This could be an effective measure aimed at expediting the integration process.”
Do you think that Crimean Tatars and other Ukrainian nationals in the [Russian-]occupied territories are receiving messages from Kyiv, that they know that Ukraine won’t leave them alone and will make every effort to get them back home?
“Every effort is being made, but the problem remains. This is very important for me. As a member of the Crimean Parliament, Mejlis, as a member of the Verkhovna Rada, and being determined to have the occupied territories returned, it is my duty to convey this state-building message to the people. However, this is only my initiative and that of several other MPs. Truth be told, this is a serious problem on a national level. On the one hand, everyone appears to be supporting the Crimean Tatars... On the other hand, few seem to realize our current realities. Some keep asking why we should feel happy about the EU visa-free regime. I keep telling them that they don’t know how happy the Crimean Tatars feel about each such PACE resolution, even a small amendment thereto; that each is a hope-inspiring message to the Crimean Tatars.
“No one feels safe in Crimea these days. Each day one has to struggle to survive and suppress the fear of imminent death. Few realize this in [official] Kyiv, just as few realize the importance of such messages. Therefore, we must keep sending them, with the emphasis on patriotism and unity. Previously, such a statement would’ve been considered to be pompous, but now that part of Ukraine is occupied [by Russia], with thousands killed in action, it is clear that such a statement can only serve as a basic guarantee of victory. It was with such statements, rather than assault rifles and armored vehicles, that Israel protected itself in a very complicated situation. Take the US war in Vietnam or the Soviet war in Afghanistan. Those wars were won by people who fought to defend their homeland.”
ANTIDOTE TO KREMLIN PROPAGANDA
After three years of war, morale tends to weaken.
“That’s precisely why Russia has been sending all those abandon-sinking-ship messages that have been carried by our media. We need an antidote to this propaganda, like small but important victories. Ukraine had no effective armed forces when Russia invaded. We have them now. Could you name a single European country that would’ve been able to withstand Russia’s aggression for all these years, with its armed forces that have been upgraded for several decades? Isn’t this proof that the Ukrainian nation is the winner?”
Probably, but when you watch any Ukrainian channel, the impression is that the enemy is actively operating within our information space; that, while our men are fighting and dying, people here in Kyiv seem to be falling asleep one step from an abyss.
“When we say that we’re prepared to get back Crimea and [the occupied] Donbas, we also have to realize whether or not we’re prepared to accommodate them. The point isn’t only funding and otherwise supporting the territories that have been actually robbed clean by the enemy. Suppose that Russia withdraws its troops tomorrow, allowing the Ukrainian authorities to organize elections there, make appointments, and so on. Try to picture several million people who have suffered a serious stress, their hearts and minds crying with pain, even hatred. For three years these people have been hearing about being shot at by Ukraine. They’ve been hearing about the Kyiv junta, stuff like that. How many of them would dare return home? How many would fear retribution? How many would fear being charged with collaboration with the enemy? What should be done in the first place would be an effort to improve the situation, of course. These people should realize that no one is blaming them, that what has happened isn’t their fault. This takes a comprehensive reintegration program, involving 1.8 million individuals currently known as internally displaced persons. This is an unprecedented number of migrants for Europe, let alone Ukraine. We have the IDP Center, along with joint interactive projects. There is a small infrastructure, in a field not far from Kyiv. It is complete with a [grade] school and apartment buildings, something like a [good old Soviet] kolkhoz. This area is currently inhabited by Donbas refugees and it serves as graphic proof that certain systems can be generated.”
Psychological support is also important.
“We practice such courses, too. We deal with individuals who believe that they’ve lost everything, but we tell them that they’re starting from scratch, that they’re standing new chances, in a new environment. People complain about their life, about what they’ve lost and suffered during the war and under [Russia’s] occupation, lacking resumes that would testify to their professional capacity. Here the main foothold is an ability to learn, using one’s professional experience. Migrants with this ability turn out to be even more effective than the locals, people accustomed to the local environment and unchanging conditions. There are several Donbas refugees living at my place, trained lawyers who lost everything. Their son used to be a prosecutor. No chance for him to have a similar job here, so he has a cafe in Kyiv, running his business rather well. The man has adjusted himself to the local environment and I doubt that he would’ve done so back in Donbas.”
CRIMEAN TATARS GENETICALLY OPPOSE RUSSIA’S OCCUPATION
Crimean Tatars’ recent rally demanded ethnic autonomy, among other things. This could be another attempt to get back to Ukraine. What about other ethnic groups? Could any of them wish to withdraw from Ukraine, claiming ethnic autonomy? This and the war with Russia could be a reason behind separatist moods.
“You have to distinguish between the indigenous people and ethnic groups. There are Crimean Karaites and Crimean Tatars. Crimea is their native land and they see it only as part of Ukraine. There are Jews in Ukraine who regard Israel as their forefathers’ land. There are few Crimean Karaites and Crimean Tatars by comparison. Crimea has always been a territorial autonomy. What did Russia do to prompt Crimean Tatars to turn traitor to Ukraine? It proposed to make the Crimean Tatar language official there. Russia kept its promise while Ukraine failed during the 20 years [of its national independence].”
“By and large, no one is responsible for the information policy in the region. There are many actors who want to influence it, such as the Ministry of Information Policy, the National Television Committee, the information department of the oblast state administration, but there is no coordination of their actions. In addition, there is no coordination with international organizations that are engaged in it. An interdepartmental commission has been set up at the cabinet level, with one of its tasks being to coordinate the information support work, but there have been no results so far. Similarly, cultural events are not regulated, they are not scheduled apart from each other to avoid competition, and neither are they adequately covered. I think that this largely depends on the position of the regional leadership. The military-regional administration has enough powers to take it under control.”
“MANY GRATEFUL CITIZENS OF SLOVIANSK AWAIT DEN’S NEXT VISIT”
Den’s Photo Exhibition is essentially an unprecedented volunteer project. This spring, we brought it to as many as two cities in Donetsk oblast. What response did it get in Sloviansk?
“There are two aspects to it, that is, personal and public. Let us start with the personal one: I liked the photo exhibition, no question about it. It is full of content, visually attractive, vivid and philosophical. As a psychologist, I believe that such events are most effective for changing people’s worldviews. After all, at least 70 percent of humans are visuals. That is, they make decisions or think about actions while looking at it or having a visual image of it. Large photos are precisely the signals that can trigger the ‘Brownian’ thought processes in people’s minds. There were a lot of works that used an unconventional approach to make people think about the events linked to the fate of the country, the war, and the Euromaidan, as well as the Ukrainian self-identification in general. Speaking of it from a public perspective, the photo exhibition did have a large public impact, because Den is a major, well-respected publication with a long-standing and well-deserved reputation, so it was the No. 1 event in the city. Many visited it, there were many responses, first of all in conversations. So, I implore you to continue this tradition and come here next year, as many grateful citizens of Sloviansk await you.”
