Former President of Latvia Valdis Zatlers visited Ukraine in late September to participate in commemorative events marking the 75th anniversary of the Babyn Yar massacre. In an exclusive interview for The Day, he explained the purpose of his trip to Kyiv thus: “I am a doctor by profession, and therefore a humanist. I have always fought for human life and never approved of any death, much less a mass death. And the fact that in the 21st century we still have people being killed in wars and bouts of repression, is an internationally relevant issue. It is therefore important to remember such events as the Babyn Yar massacre.”
President Zatlers, you once said that a nation should set impossible targets for itself; in particular, you envisioned a Latvia with three million residents by 2050. How would you comment on this?
“It is certainly an unrealistic target. But we must set ourselves unrealistic targets as well, if we are to move forward. Of course, there will be less than three million Latvians by 2050, but if we stop demographic problems from worsening and increase the birth rate, our nation will then have more citizens who will work and live well. Human resource development is the economic principle underlying national prosperity.”
Refugees could have added to that resource, but they do not want to stay in your country...
“Illegal immigration to Europe was always present, but the refugee crisis has suddenly exacerbated it so much that it has shown the limits of Europe’s capabilities. Some people proposed to solve the problem by imposing national quotas. I said at once that it would not work. Filling a quota can only be achieved by forced resettlement, which accordingly makes people discontent. An immigrant will only go where they want to go. And Latvia’s experience shows that very few immigrants even come to us, and these few very quickly leave our country for Germany. Indeed, this is a serious problem, a challenge which Europe must cope with.”
“WE WILL NEVER RECOGNIZE THE ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA”
You were quoted by the media as saying, “do not turn Russia into an enemy.” However, security concerns are there in the Baltic States and Poland, and experts say that Russia can occupy the Baltic States in two days. And secondly, is the sole Canadian battalion enough to deter Russia from attacking?
“Latvia’s foreign policy maintains that we will never recognize the annexation of Crimea and believe that Russia should not be forgiven for its aggression in the Donbas. As a small nation, we will never look for enemies, and we will never attack anyone. In fact, our response to Russia’s military conflicts with its neighbors involves preparing to repel aggression, conducting exercises and showing that an invasion will not succeed in two days, thus deterring Russia from even thinking about starting any military action.”
After the annexation of Crimea and the start of Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine, the West imposed sanctions on Russia, but it has not changed its behavior. Does it mean that the sanctions do not work?
“Why do you think that the sanctions do not work? The best indicator of them working is Russia’s attempts to get them lifted. If they really did not work, it would have told the world, ‘the sanctions make no difference to us.’ I believe that the implementation of the Minsk Agreements will not end the conflict, but will only be an early phase of the settlement. Although the sanctions are painful, but they have not achieved even that result so far. I think that the sanctions will remain in force until the Minsk Agreements are implemented.
“On the other hand, it should be stressed that the fate of any nation, including Ukraine, is not decided somewhere in Washington, Moscow, Brussels or Beijing, but rather by the nation itself on its own soil. If such thinking is present, any problem should be solvable. Meanwhile, the illusion that someone will decide our fate for us is a great development obstacle for any nation that lacks self-confidence. Russia will never govern Ukraine or Latvia. It has to govern itself well, so that its own people live well.”
ON THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CORRUPTION AND THE RESTRUCTURING OF MIND
Mr. Zatlers, why was your country able to complete transformation quickly and join NATO and the EU, while our country has found it a difficult task?
“I would not say that it went that smoothly and quickly for us either. We also faced great difficulties, and sometimes major disputes. But when we joined the EU and NATO, much changed in our lives. This was not the last step, as accession to the Schengen zone followed. Each step led to a better life. Looking at mobile phone rates, while I am in the EU, it costs me so little that I can talk however long I want with anyone. When I enter not just Ukraine or, for example, Georgia, but even Switzerland, the rate jumps six-fold. It is about competitiveness and infrastructure development. Latvia, for example, is known for its fast Internet. It is also about roads, the speed of decision-making, protection of businesses and investments – all this creates an environment that is more competitive than where this order is lacking. Ultimately, you will succeed as well.”
Our partners constantly point out that Ukraine should urgently step up the fight against corruption. How, in your opinion, can we get rid of this disease faster?
“I will make you more optimistic now. We are still fighting corruption, sometimes successfully and sometimes not so successfully. The appeal of corruption will always be there. And if the state will say at some point that corruption has been defeated, it will be an illusion. It will return in two days, and possibly in just two hours. Importantly, we need the restructuring of mind that will make people understand that corruption means stealing money from the public purse which funds healthcare, national defense, and education. We really need to explain to people that bribing means creating criminal money that will never serve the nation’s well-being.”
Russia has constantly played up the alleged oppression of ethnic Russians in the former Soviet Union nations, including my own, and urged them to make the Russian language a co-official one. How have you managed to solve this problem and preserve Latvian as the sole official language?
“Of course, Russia will always say that, as many former Soviet republics have Russians living there. Meanwhile, the Russian speakers are actually unreconstructed Soviet citizens. Any true Russian will call themselves a Russian, not a Russian speaker. Therefore, the Russian speakers are people who have not yet decided who they are after the Soviet Union’s collapse.
“Do not try to limit the use of the Russian language. We have Russians speaking Russian among themselves in the Latvian parliament. But we must understand that the official language is something else. And when we had this issue raised and held a referendum on the second official language, two thirds opposed raising the Russian language’s status, and one third were in favor, which reflected the actual proportions of ethnic groups in the population. And most importantly, the society came to agree after the referendum that the issue had been resolved, and it should not be raised anymore.
“Another example is school reform. Its purpose was to make the young people fluent in the official language. There were protests at first. Ten years later, everyone was saying that it had been the right thing to do. We must understand what improves people’s situation, what makes them feel good. What do the young people want? They want to feel at home in their country and to be competitive.”
“THE HOLODOMOR NEEDS TO BE REMEMBERED ANNUALLY, AND WE NEED TO SPEAK LOUDLY ABOUT THIS CRIME”
On the eve of the commemorative events marking the 75th anniversary of the Babyn Yar massacre, Israeli President Reuven Rivlin claimed while speaking in Kyiv, in a statement redolent of Soviet propaganda, that the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) was complicit in the destruction of the Ukrainian Jewry. However, it is known that more than 2,000 Ukrainians, including members of the OUN, saved Jews during the World War Two. In addition, Israel has not recognized the Holodomor as genocide. What do you think about this?
“Soviet propaganda was and is Soviet, while we must live in the present and think like free people, since the difference between our attitude to the Holocaust today and in the Soviet time is like the difference between day and night. I think we have grown up in ethical and humanitarian dimensions as people who want peace and do not want deaths, and especially so mass ethnic-marked deaths.
“I was present at the opening of the Holodomor Memorial, and I see the Holodomor as a tragedy. If you look at the history of the Communist state, Russia eliminated its own rich peasants and many peasants in Ukraine. In other words, it destroyed the part of society which fed the nation. And here we are, so many years after the October Revolution, Russia still cannot feed itself. And it is a much deeper consequence than just the cynicism of starving to death people who worked the land and fed the nation. It cannot be understood and it must be not only recognized; the Holodomor needs to be remembered annually, and we need to speak loudly about this crime.”
