For Ukraine, France is now, above all, a Normandy Format participant. Besides, many are alarmed that the wave of populism that has swept over much of Europe and America may reach that country, too. These fears are not groundless – it is not ruled out that the next president of France will be ex-premier Francois Fillon, a friend of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who tweeted the other day that he “does not consider Russia a menace.” Forecast say that the runoff election may see a struggle between Fillon and Marine Le Pen, the leader of a far right party that has received a loan from a Russian bank.
For this reason, we wanted to receive a firsthand commentary on these issues from Isabelle DUMONT, the French Ambassador to Ukraine. But the diplomat made it clear that, in accordance with the standing instructions, she must not comment on events in her country.
The Day began the interview [recorded on November 22. – Ed.] with an important event that took place recently in Kyiv – unveiling the monument “Anna of Kyiv, Queen of France.” We asked to what extent the French know about her role in the history of France.
“Many French people know about Anna. What is more, she is called in France as Ann of Kyiv – this means they know that she was from Kyiv. Naturally, not all of the French know about her, but those interested in history and this region have long known about Anna. And when I began to deal with Ukraine, it immediately became clear to me that Anna of Kyiv played an important role in the history of relations between our countries.
“As for the event itself – unveiling the monument – it was a beautiful and touching moment. I said in my speech that it was a link in the chain of our common history. It was important for me to honor this link.
“I was surprised and moved to see so many people at this event. I am saying it honestly.”
Do you think this historical link has been barely discernible in the past few decades? For the impression is that the majority of the French elite continue by inertia to look at Ukraine through the Russian glasses. For example, Jacques Chirac told George Bush Jr. that Ukraine is part of Russia. The former US president recalls this in his memoirs.
“I can say it frankly that, whatever may happen in this region, there will always be people who want to think that France is against Ukraine and Ukraine is surrounded by enemies only. It is strange to hear it, when France is Ukraine’s friend that has done very much, invested a lot of money, and rendered political and financial assistance. But still there are people who tend to think that not only France but even Ukraine’s friends are not friends in reality.
“For example, before the past week’s decision on visa liberalization, journalists kept telling me until the last minute that France was refusing to support this decision.”
“IT TOOK MORE THAN A WEEK, NOT 12 HOURS, TO DRAW UP THE MINSK-2 DOCUMENT”
But, for example, French ex-president Nicolas Sarkozy said at the Petersburg forum that sanctions against Russia should be lifted. Now ex-premier Francois Fillon is also calling for lifting the sanctions. It is also alarming that, in spite of the foreign ministry’s warning, French MPs visit the annexed Crimea. And Marine Le Pen’s party received a loan at a Russian bank. Would you comment on this?
“There are millions of people in France, who may be taking different positions. Usually, to assess bilateral relations, one should look at the official position. And I can say that France was for a long time and still is backing Ukraine. The French foreign policy is usually consistent enough.”
Madam Ambassador, as is known, you were part of the French delegation at the Normandy Format summit on February 12-13, 2015, in Minsk. Could you disclose the details of that day and say about the role of France, particularly President Hollande, in drawing up the document known as Minsk-2?
“As you remember, the situation was very tense at the time. Ms. Merkel and I wanted to stop the bloodshed. It was our main goal. Everybody usually mentions February 12, but we began to work on this agreement earlier. Chancellor Merkel and President Hollande had visited Kyiv and then Moscow a week before. I must say it took more than a week, not 12 hours, to draw up this document.
“You know the result. We tried to achieve the goals this document sets. We have been making efforts for 18 months now to halt the war and restore Ukraine’s territorial integrity.”
Do you think the main problem – that the Minsk agreement has not yet been implemented – lies in the document or in something else?
“I don’t think the problem is in the document. People often treat Minsk-2 as something problematic, but it turns out at a closer examination that it is a basic document. Of course, all conflicts in the world differ, but each of them involves cessation of fire, withdrawal of heavy weapons, and taking political measures. It is common knowledge, and we continue to work on this.”
We saw this year the active efforts of French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault who has twice visited Kyiv in an attempt to give impetus to Minsk agreements implementation. Why do you think there is no progress here?
“There is some in fact. You know that it was decided in Berlin on October 19 to go on drawing up a ‘road map.’ This ongoing work does not attract much publicity. The working subgroups of the Trilateral Contact Group meet in Minsk every week. In other words, work is in progress, but it is perhaps not so much talked of.”
“SANCTIONS WILL STAY ON UNTIL THE MINSK AGREEMENTS ARE IMPLEMENTED”
A French eыxpert, Nicolas Tenzer, said in an interview with our publication: “Both President Hollande and Prime Minister Valls could show more understanding of the situation in Ukraine and say more clearly about the obstacles Putin’s Russia is creating to the establishment of peace in Ukraine.” What do you think of this?
“It has long been clear to everybody where the problem is and what we should work on.”
Still, what do you think should be done to force Russia to fulfill the first three items?
“This is all being done – precisely in a Normandy Format dialog. All these things are being discussed there. It is to this end that the ‘road map’ is being drawn up.”
What does the position of France depend on, as far as sanctions against Russia are concerned?
“You should take into account an important point: these are sanctions of the European Union, not of France. The Union’s 28 member states decide on sanctions in Brussels. The EU’s position is that sanctions will stay on until the Minsk agreements are implemented.”
“THANKS TO THE FORUM, FRENCH BUSINESSES CAME TO KNOW UKRAINE BETTER”
You said in a Den interview that the Ukrainian-French Paris forum held in late October would give an impetus to cooperation. Do you see it?
“I would say I do – on both sides, incidentally. Thanks to this forum, French businesses came to know Ukraine and its capabilities better. We organized the forum in such a way that French and Ukrainian entrepreneurs could have concrete meetings. Mr. Hroisman managed to meet Premier Valls and Minister for the Economy and Finance Sapin. Besides, we organized a luncheon for Hroisman and French entrepreneurs who considered it important to meet face to face with the Ukrainian prime minister. The roundtables on transport, agriculture, and IT were also very useful.
“After the forum, we are still receiving calls from people who say they have been at this forum or read about it in the press and would like to invest in Ukraine. They ask us to give additional explanations. This is the concrete example of a useful undertaking. Of course, it is about contacts so far.
“I think this forum was also useful to the Ukrainian authorities which had prepared very well for it. A week before the forum, Premier Hroisman had met French entrepreneurs here in Kyiv in order to hear them say about their problems.
“This made it possible to see that France in fact plays a very important role in the Ukrainian economy. I am not sure that the authorities knew this before this meeting. For example, they did not know that French businesses were the first international employers in Ukraine. It also seems to me they were unaware of the extent to which world leaders are present here in Ukraine in various fields. Therefore, both sides have benefited from this forum.
“We, the embassy, are doing our best to attract investments. And we will go on doing so. We also believe that it is necessary to improve the situation of the companies that work here. Unfortunately, there are rather serious problems here. We are trying to put this information across to the Ukrainian authorities. For, before making a decision, new investors ask the investors who already work in the country about the situation.”
You must be aware of the Ukrainian industry’s capacity to produce narrow-body airplanes, carrier rockets, as well as aircraft and ship engines. Many other things are made in your country. Why are we unable to combine our capabilities and organize joint production? What hinders this?
“We in the embassy know very well that Ukraine is really very strong by intellect. Everybody is saying so. Ukrainians are high-skilled specialists, especially in the IT field.
“There is also success in other sectors. But you know better than I that it is not all so simple. Very much is being done in the field of scientific research. If scientists work together, this cooperation may then continue in practical terms.”
“BUILDING AN ARCH OVER THE CHORNOBYL REACTOR IS ONE OF THE WORLD’S MOST IMPORTANT INDUSTRIAL PROJECTS”
As is known, an arch designed by the French consortium Novarka will be installed over the ruined Chornobyl nuclear power station reactor on November 29. What did this project mean to France and what are the further prospects of cooperation between our countries in this field?
“France is the second national donor, having invested 188 million euros in this project. For this reason, it is very important to us. We made both a financial and an engineering contribution. This consortium included world-famous design and construction firms. It is in fact one of the world’s most important industrial projects. This arch will be finally installed over the ruined reactor on November 29.
“I stood on top of this arch, and this impressed me very much. I remember my heart beating violently because it is very high. It is not a simple arch – its design allows robots to work inside and dismantle the ruined reactor. The arch is supposed to serve for 100 years, a sufficient time for the Ukrainian authorities to do all the necessary things to disassemble Reactor Four.”
“WE INTEND TO DO OUR BEST FOR UKRAINE TO CHANGE FOR THE BETTER”
Yesterday Ukraine marked the third anniversary of the Euromaidan. What would you wish Ukrainians on a day like this?
“We regret very much that many people died here. I was personally not here in November 2013, but I watched those events. I always remember that young people took to the streets to defend their European choice. I wish this country to do its utmost to make the dreams of those young people come true. And this requires further efforts to carry out reforms. France is here to support these reforms. We want to back Ukraine and its government which has set a goal to achieve European standards. We intend to do our best for Ukraine to change, as those who fought and died in 2013-15 dreamed.”
